New Boat, Swedish Delta "Yacht" - anyone got any info? Jack?

z1ppy said:
nice one, we have push out the yacht designer who came here to educate us. there ws no evidence of any kind of sales pitch from him and was simply responding (honestly and without bias) to people questions.

prehaps all armchair yacht designers should actually get out there, get funding, create tooling, employ skills and produce a product and get it to market. then of course all the boats on the water would be perfect :ambivalence:
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Nah, thats rubbish. Mapism was only discussing a valid point in a lighthearted manner and its not his fault that Lars seemed to have flounced out of the room. In any case with jfm showing interest in his €5m boat, you'd think he would have bent over backwards to stay on the thread. I guess business must be too good. I'm not taking a potshot at Lars in particular but in my experience, designers often have very little hands on experience of using the machinery they dream up and they often need educating on the practical problems associated with doing that
 
fwiw,

I can sympathize with Lars; as a designer I'm quite offended on criticism I receive on my design decisions and implementations. I know it's not right, but design and built is a v. demanding and emotional process and criticism is not taken lightly...
OTOH, I definitely am with MM, JFM and pete here (although JTB I sadly wont be able to sign for hull #7 :( maybe I should start playing loto or something )

J, I sincerely hope it works out, but it's going to be a different game altogether compared to Fairline quota on customisations...

cheers

V.
 
Yes, I can feel a great new build thread coming on, and with a very different boat to the Sq 78, this all sounds very exciting.
Lars, please come back and play, we are really not a bad bunch:)

(As long as you keep out of the lounge)
 
Hi JFM, curious to know how serious you are regarding changing boats? From an onlookers pov I would love the process to begin asap but I cant imagine you are tired of the Sq78 or will be any time soon. Are you working to a pre determined time-line in terms of moving toward a 'final' boat or is the fun in the project management more than the post delivery.

My purchases have mainly been driven by the green eyed monster and were relatively unplanned but I get the sense that you are working to a plan...its probably in a thread somewhere but I'm too lazy to go looking.

Please ignore if its none of my business, just interested so thought I'd ask. :)
 
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JFM talk to Sunsseker ,for a lot less than € 5.2m ( was that inc tax.) ?
They will customise a Y 80 .Just think how nice it will be to have a T top in the med .
a few years back a chap wanted an expedition boat ,you know Greenland ,Artic etc -And fInally med family hols .So they fitted JohnDeeres -topped out at somthing like 12-14 knots on a Pred 108 Looked the Biz ,but slow + massive transatlantic range -mega fuel tanks
If you ask them nicely ,iam sure you could work together to come up with some thing inc gas turbines or arnesons - or a small trolling wing engine for D speed or a multiple of IPS - VP - if actually thats what you want ? +any mods .Having " modified/ custom" 2 previously,I would have thought an English yard in a pleasant neck of the woods would be a reasonable option ?
Thing is with that boat ( think i t was called Shadow not sure ) brokers hated it back then -took over 2 Y to sell ,
So residues?? Hmm.
Nice at it is the 80 or is it 88 ? By the way I would not change any thing ( nod to Lars ) Does it appeal to the mass market at that level ?? SS have no problem creating 2-3 y waiting lists and churning out 100s of 80-115 ftrs all with various amounts of customisation , well any thing -just ask and pay x£ they will do it .
Even on the starter P 40 anything is doable within the laws of physics .
I think you would be daft engaging with these to mod that @ €5.2 m on hull 3-4 Without entering into a conversation with SS first .
 
Ok folks, let me try to dot i's and cross t's a bit, following the order of previous post.
Sorry to be a bit late, I only had time for a quick reply to what was the last post (from z1ppy) last morning.

@ Door Mop: so, you felt the need to post your SECOND contribution to this forum just to dismiss my comments as "snidey remarks". Well, thank you for your interest.

@ vision: so, you felt the need to post your SEVENTEENTH contribution, since you joined EIGHT years ago, to second Door Mop. I love you too.
Oh, and for good measure, you also specified that I "can go on and on". Does this mean that leaving aside my paranoid habits, you actually agree with the CONTENT of what I said?

@ z1ppy: see my post #151. I agree that there was no evidence of sales pitch from Lars, though.

@ petem: I don't think it's appropriate to compare the glass hatch on sport cruisers to the one on the D80. The first is indeed a functional answer to an understandable need/wish, while the latter is not (imho).

@ jfm: LOL, were you reading my mind, when I was writing my post #142? Shame that Lars totally misunderstood my point.

@ pan: I'm rather skeptic to have been the real reason why you think to have lost an opportunity, but see my conclusion below, anyway.

@ vas: I perfectly understand what you mean. In hindsight, I can accept that classifying a design element (albeit minor) as "form over function" might sound as a sort of insult for a designer. But as it happens, that's exactly what the p/house glass hatch actually is, as I'm sure you agree.
And as most of you already know (but not Lars, obviously), I just can't help calling a spade a spade.
Otoh, I must say that I do like the overall design of this D80 - I wouldn't have even taken the time to read this thread, if I didn't.
In fact, I even agree with jfm when he says that he likes her better than a S/skr or an ORY (though with the caveat that I've not seen her in flesh, while I've seen both the others). Need I say more?

Now, all that said, the conclusion which follows is mainly addressed to Lars (and yes, I am 100% sure that you will read this):
It is pretty obvious that your contribution to this specific thread can have much more added value than mine.
So, if by "checking out" you meant that you were abandoning the madhouse because you could not stand my own posts anymore, I am willing to refrain from making any further comment. Just let me know, either here or via pm, as you prefer.
See, I hate to leave the perception to anybody that they lost an opportunity because my comments kicked you out, therefore I'm quite happy to rather stay out myself.
Imho, you wouldn't do yourself and your boat yard a favour by abandoning the forum using myself as an excuse, but that's your call.
 
Portofino said:
a few years back a chap wanted an expedition boat ,you know Greenland ,Artic etc -And fInally med family hols .So they fitted JohnDeeres -topped out at somthing like 12-14 knots on a Pred 108 Looked the Biz ,but slow + massive transatlantic range -mega fuel tanks
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Wow, makes me wonder why someone might choose a Darwin class battleship instead, for such type of cruising.
Then again, this video gives a hint on the possible reasons... :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIYQnQOPGEY
 
Oh dear sorry MapisM. You have to understand I posted my seventeenth contribution sat on the toilet and was upset Lars had left, as I was enjoying the thread and I only and still have you to blame! It may be eight years since I joined however I keep an eye on everybody every day and am the uncle of Me2 (The boat mad 16 year old who normally wins spot the boat)and have a father who is associated with Benetti and is sof based, so I have good breeding however am a little shy and busy! You know what? This morning my mood is better and I will continue to enjoy your contributions and remain on the side peacefully, and now I know why I do! Have a good day MapisM.
 
Thanks for the response Mapis, on reflection my post may have been presumptuous and the thread outcome was probably inevitable. Querying aspects of the design with the creator, is like questioning the parents about the beauty of their new born child.;)
 
MapisM said:
Ok folks-------- I am willing to refrain from making any further comment. Just let me know, either here or via pm, as you prefer.

See, I hate to leave the perception to anybody that they lost an opportunity because my comments kicked you out, therefore I'm quite happy to rather stay out myself.
Imho, you wouldn't do yourself and your boat yard a favour by abandoning the forum using myself as an excuse, but that's your call.
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Thing is MM in my view -You got too personal and frankly rude to Lars and even to Door mop and vision pointing out there there low frequency of posts does not help at all.
Rhinoceros skin is what would really help ,not everybody has that .
Delta boats and the 80 look great ,seems to be at the front of design/ tech with an eye on the green Eco side of things
I wish Lars and the rest of the team every success and look forward to stepping aboard some Deltas at Cannes 1014
 
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Portofino said:
Thing is MM in my view -You got too personal and frankly rude to Lars and even to Door mop and vision pointing out there there low frequency of posts does not help at all.
Rhinoceros skin is what would really help ,not everybody has that .
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I think that misses the point. With the chance of selling a €5m boat, you would think that anybody that has anything to do with Delta on this forum would take it on the chin to stay on the thread. If I flounced off every time one of my customers was a bit arsey to me (and believe me they can be a lot worse that Mapism could dream of being), then I wouldn't have a business. Also, in my mind, it begs the question as to how Delta handle after sales issues as well. If that kind of uber-sensitive attitude pervades the whole company, how are they going to react when jfm has a busted IPS in some remote corner of the Med?
 
I just hope his boss is not going to come along to 'put things right' :). (Lars, this is nothing personal, but a reference to an another similar thread we had not long ago).

I'm sorry not to have anything meaningful to say about Delta boats but I just can't help noticing the similarities this thread bears, from a communications point of view, to the one re. Princess.

I'd just like to add my humble support for the great work people at Delta have done in creating very appealing boats.
 
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Deleted User said:
I think that misses the point. With the chance of selling a €5m boat, you would think that anybody that has anything to do with Delta on this forum would take it on the chin to stay on the thread. If I flounced off every time one of my customers was a bit arsey to me (and believe me they can be a lot worse that Mapism could dream of being), then I wouldn't have a business. Also, in my mind, it begs the question as to how Delta handle after sales issues as well. If that kind of uber-sensitive attitude pervades the whole company, how are they going to react when jfm has a busted IPS in some remote corner of the Med?
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+1!
 
Deleted User said:
I think that misses the point. With the chance of selling a €5m boat, you would think that anybody that has anything to do with Delta on this forum would take it on the chin to stay on the thread. If I flounced off every time one of my customers was a bit arsey to me (and believe me they can be a lot worse that Mapism could dream of being), then I wouldn't have a business. Also, in my mind, it begs the question as to how Delta handle after sales issues as well. If that kind of uber-sensitive attitude pervades the whole company, how are they going to react when jfm has a busted IPS in some remote corner of the Med?
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If he's gone, it's a shame.

However, can you be sure that Lars' behaviour is in anyway represetative of the brand?

Perhaps 'flouncing off' is more a reflection of his role as designer. Maybe that's just what designers do. They give a bit of 'soul' to each product so perhaps he is just too emotianally attached to the product to discuss changes at this stage.

I'm not sure his commercial director would do the same.

And then there's the perception that Lars' behaviour is any kind of indicator of how a Delta customer may be treated in the future. Turning it on its head, I've been treated really nicely and had plenty of 'sucking up' whilst purchasing other items, and then been largely ignored when I had a warranty issue afterwards. So total niceness up front is sometimes nothing other than 'buttering up' customers. Then again, 'buttering up' is a good start I guess.

I reckon that we just all had an insight into the designer's attachment to his product, rather than Delta yachts.

Break the silence Lars.

Surely you can't leave all us watchers with such a mis-perception of what you have to offer. We all want to understand more about the design and the rationale behind the decisions.
Even MM has offered to be more gentle.

Cheers

Garold
 
I cannot see and understand how some forum members can take it versus MapisM, who as far or since I have been here (since over six years), has always been a huge contributor to it in many of its facets.

Now whether you agree with his Points of View is not mandatory, but that is like saying Blue is my favorite color and should be yours and everyone else around here.

Personally if Lars backs out of the forum cause of Mapis its a huge loss for him in my opinion.
A forum is a can of worms for a designer, especially to some whose work is a but out of the mill of the usual shape on offer in the market at the moment.

The reply from Lars that he built 250 boats was also a bit of a tongue on cheek IMO.
As a food for taught I give an example; Fairline have built how much 3000 boats, and once in a while they did a boat which failed the expectations, and yet some forum members from here noted the short comings of these models straight away at the boat show launch. Are they better then the designer, for sure No in his work, but once one becomes a boat user a knowledge of that item he likes and gives him pleasure becomes of first nature to him.

Now 24 meters plus is another game, more so if you're a small builder, but is not the first time that a designer think he made the perfect boat only to be dismissed by the customers after a few seasons and only sell very little.
 
I am sorry MapisM but what does it matter how many posts someone has done. It is irrelevant. It's not a competition to see who can post the most in a couple of years. It's pathetic, if someone on here has 5000+ posts their opinion is considered not valid. From where I am sitting and a few other people's view, some comments have ruined the chance of a interesting thread. Why does it make Lars a bad person because he's left. Why should he out up with these comments. This is not the first person who has had a bad welcome to this forum. Think of the chap who tried to do a build log of a van der valk.
 
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Door Mop said:
From where I am sitting and a few other people's view, some comments have ruined the chance of a interesting thread. Why does it make Lars a bad person because he's left. Why should he out up with these comments. This is not the first person who has had a bad welcome to this forum. Think of the chap who tried to do a build log of a van der valk.
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No, you think about it. Mr VDV was treated perfectly respectably. There was a valid principled discussion about whether this forum should contain only blogs written by amateurs, or not. Democracy prevailed, and the people arguing "amateurs only" proved to be a minority and graciously accepted defeat. There was never anything remotely personal thrown at Mr VDV.

You are similarly inaccurate when you write above "some comments have ruined the chance of a interesting thread". You have got the cause and effect wrong there. It was Lars's own choice to leave. MapisM even offered to leave the thread if Lars preferred that.

Lars is of course perfectly free to check out any time he wishes. It's just a pity he has, because the discussion and debate would have been interesting I think. As PYB correctly says above, "24 meters plus is another game" In that size category designers/builders need to accept debate and pushback from potential customers as "part of the package" of winning some orders. There are many custom boat owners/customers who will run quite fast from builders/designers who "check out" at criticism of a mere window. Not all of course, but some.
 
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