New Boat, Swedish Delta "Yacht" - anyone got any info? Jack?

MapisM said:
Mmm... My longer non stop passage at D speed so far has taken more than 3 days non-stop. Are you sure VP would recommend such sort of usage?
Regardless, my question was if you considered the option of running the boat on just 1 or 2 engines (aside from emergencies, of course).
The answer is obviously no, I reckon.
Nothing wrong with that, but there's no need to explain/justify that she can as well run at idle with all engines on...
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In fact, there is a "clutch" that allows you to go down to just 3 knots on idling speed. It is for for docking and also fishing, so I think VP is OK with running at idle for as long as you want...
 
Designo said:
That would need some engineering I think...

View attachment 37828
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hm, didn't realise they are dual props...

I guess the only solution would be to fully retract the pod :D
won't be too difficult, would it? ;)

In all seriousness, I'd guess the next level of developments that would benefit users even rich enough to afford a beautiful craft like this, would be a reasonable way of operating on less engines at D speeds. So theoretically a 3-engined planning hull like the ones you design, would turn to a single engine D speed economical beast for long range cruising (where the engine would be doing something more than idling keeping internals happy and soot free). Modularity and flexibility as in everything we seem to produce and purchase these days, no?

cheers

V.
 
vas said:
In all seriousness, I'd guess the next level of developments that would benefit users even rich enough to afford a beautiful craft like this, would be a reasonable way of operating on less engines at D speeds. So theoretically a 3-engined planning hull like the ones you design, would turn to a single engine D speed economical beast for long range cruising (where the engine would be doing something more than idling keeping internals happy and soot free). Modularity and flexibility as in everything we seem to produce and purchase these days, no?

cheers

V.
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I think in the future you will run three electric motors in an integrated hybrid solution for displacement speeds.
 
Lars
Welcome to the forum, and congratulations on the beautiful 80. Your collegue K has kindly sent me much useful information on it and invited me for a look. Unfortunately URE isn't the easiest place to get to, at least for a UK/London person. The Stansted-Tallinn flight has a reputation of being full of UK blokes on stag party trips! :D But I'll find the time in Jan/Feb next year I hope. Do you mind if I ask a few tech/design questions please? Happy to do these offline if you prefer but they may be of general interest so open forum is good if possible. no worries either way

1. A tender garage is not everyone's cup of tea, nor is a W385. Leaving aside cost at this stage, if a customer requested it would you/could you delete the fixed swim platform and fit instead an HB Tecnics up/down platform (I see you already buy the garage door mech from them). Obviously the Opacmare Transformer would be deleted. The real question is, what is in that big "pod" under the swim platform on hull #1

2. Could/would you cut/flange/insert new piece into the flybridge mould to allow fabrication of a stretched flybridge deck? Stretched backwards over the lower aft deck, so the flybridge deck reaches as far back as the transom almost? (Exactly as you have done on your drawings of the 40m in fact, haha!) You would delete the sun blind gadget obviously, and maybe insert two legs to support the overhang in case it would be too long to cantilever. Like this:

BEFORE MOD
delta88modzero.jpg



AFTER MODDING
delta88mod1.jpg


3. I'm trying to see how to fit an internal staircase from galley/somewhere aft of lower helm, to the flybridge. It's a pity the flybridge windscreen is so far back. It would have been easier if the fly windscreen was closer to the glass panels above the lower helm (like the above photoshop). At the moment, the staircase would have to land aft of the galley, which isn't great. Any ideas? It's quite a big deal to change the fly mould to put the windscreen further forward, obviously, though anything is possible...

4. Please excuse my ignorance of carbon construction but is the white finish paint or a gelcoat?

5. The lower helm needs work imho. The fact that steering and throttle control can be done while sitting in a chair is not enough - on a long trip you don't adjust either of those things anyway. It needs the 3x screens bringing aft so the crew can tap the touchscreens without getting off their chairs. At night in busy waters you are constantly "working the screens" to marpa targets etc, so you need to be able to reach them from the chair. But this is easy stuff that a customer could design with you. The general design of the cabinet is worth looking at too- if you need for example a contact who can cover a wooden or GRP dash in handstiched leather, let me know. Also it would be nice to see a great % of the glass swept by the wipers

Thanks for your thoughts anyway. Congratulations once again on a remarkable vessel.
 
Designo said:
I think in the future you will run three electric motors in an integrated hybrid solution for displacement speeds.
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If you mean in a boat like your 80', capable of 37 knots, that's not going to happen, imho. Not in an efficient way, anyhow.
 
Yeah Mapis but if you have a 600mm of jack shaft between the Volvo engines and the IPS, and stick a electric motor on those shafts, you have something interesting. Especially if one of the gensets is a nice turbo diesel say 75kw and can be run to power the 3 electric motors in addition to batteries. Or a gas turbine running on diesel
 
MapisM said:
I don't think the forward stretch would be feasible as in your "after" pic, because it looks like they went as forward as allowed by the raised p/house underneath.
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On further reflection MapisM I don't think that's correct. See picture below (I did not hot-link because it is too wide). There is a big distance between the step up in the floor to the helm, and the step in the ceiling at aft end of galley. If Delta would stretch the fly windscreen forward by say 2m, the step in the ceiling would move forward 2m, but that's ok. Then the staircase could go athwartships at the aft of the galley (losing 500mm of galley length). Or in the equivalent position on the port side. The staircase would then emerge on the flybridge just aft of the helm chairs, near the outer edge (port of starboard side) of the flybridge deck.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4CYqh2EDB...LWg/DsaiszswTTI/s1600/Delta+80+IPS+Galley.jpg
 
jfm said:
Yeah Mapis but if you have a 600mm of jack shaft between the Volvo engines and the IPS, and stick a electric motor on those shafts, you have something interesting.
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I didn't say it's not feasible, just that it won't be efficient.
Such solution is indeed interesting, but makes sense on single engine ocean crossing vessels, which need a get home system anyway.
On a boat which already has 3 big diesel lumps, that only adds weight - hence inefficiency.
Besides, when Lars was talking of "three electric motors", I actually guessed that he was envisaging a solution with electric-only propulsion, and multi-stage gensets, which is very different from what you're saying. Again, feasible, but on a fast planing boat, the cons far outweigh the pros.
 
jfm said:
On further reflection MapisM I don't think that's correct. See picture below...
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Yup, I didn't consider the interior pics in my previous comment, you might well be right.
And you know what? I would also get rid of the cockpit stair altogether.
I never ever missed it, and I can safely say that nobody else onboard did, while cruising on BA.

PS: there's one caveat in having only an internal stair, though: it has to be close to the side door leading to the walkaround (as it is on BA, in fact).
That way, you can reach the f/b also with wet feet without worrying too much about the internal floor. No big deal, anyway.
 
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MapisM said:
I didn't say it's not feasible, just that it won't be efficient.
Such solution is indeed interesting, but makes sense on single engine ocean crossing vessels, which need a get home system anyway.
On a boat which already has 3 big diesel lumps, that only adds weight - hence inefficiency.
Besides, when Lars was talking of "three electric motors", I actually guessed that he was envisaging a solution with electric-only propulsion, and multi-stage gensets, which is very different from what you're saying. Again, feasible, but on a fast planing boat, the cons far outweigh the pros.
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Yup, agreed, at least partly: 3 big motors and multi gensets a la Lurssen would be very nice. But until that hardware is avaialbe, for now, for D running when you need say 100hp it is much better to have a single gas turbine sending 33Kw to each of 3 electric motors on the jackshafts, than run 3x Volvo D13s which likely have 40hp of internal friction and losses each. And for long passages this would avoid the light-loading on the three big engines. Worth the E500kg of weight, I'd think (especially if combined with the gas turbine)
 
MapisM said:
I would also get rid of the cockpit stair altogether.
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Yes, you could delete it. Sanlorenzo do, as you know, and iirc some of the 80-90 foot Rivas. For sure, if there is a priority, i'd prefer the internal stairs to the external ones. On my boat the foot traffic on the internal stairs is 3x the traffic on the external stairs, in any weather conditions
 
jfm said:
On my boat the foot traffic on the internal stairs is 3x the traffic on the external stairs
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Of course it is. Whenever JC asks for a drink while pretending to helm the boat, that's the shortest path to please him... :cool:
 
jfm said:
Lars
Welcome to the forum, and congratulations on the beautiful 80. Do you mind if I ask a few tech/design questions please? H

1. If a customer requested it would you/could you delete the fixed swim platform and fit instead an HB Tecnics up/down platform? The real question is, what is in that big "pod" under the swim platform on hull #1

2. Could/would you cut/flange/insert new piece into the flybridge mould to allow fabrication of a stretched flybridge deck? Stretched backwards over the lower aft deck, so the flybridge deck reaches as far back as the transom almost, and maybe insert two legs to support the overhang in case it would be too long to cantilever.

3. I'm trying to see how to fit an internal staircase from galley/somewhere aft of lower helm, to the flybridge. It's a pity the flybridge windscreen is so far back. It would have been easier if the fly windscreen was closer to the glass panels above the lower helm (like the above photoshop). At the moment, the staircase would have to land aft of the galley, which isn't great. Any ideas? It's quite a big deal to change the fly mould to put the windscreen further forward, obviously, though anything is possible...

4. Please excuse my ignorance of carbon construction but is the white finish paint or a gelcoat?

5. The lower helm needs work imho. The fact that steering and throttle control can be done while sitting in a chair is not enough - on a long trip you don't adjust either of those things anyway. It needs the 3x screens bringing aft so the crew can tap the touchscreens without getting off their chairs. At night in busy waters you are constantly "working the screens" to marpa targets etc, so you need to be able to reach them from the chair. Also it would be nice to see a great % of the glass swept by the wipers.
Click to expand...

Hi Jfm and thanks for starting this thread! On your question nr 1, I have already answered it, and yes you can delete most of the platform. I would like to have a short fixed one for mooring purposes and then there can be a hi-lo from HB. The "pod" today is to add buoyancy for the weight of the platform, the transformer and a PWC. It is also reducing the slamming you should have from waves bouncing under a flat surface.

2. I would not change the mould for the flybridge, but if you would like to have an extension we can discuss it.

3. Same thing here, if you would like to sacrifice the operation of the forward glass hatch for a longer flybridge, it can be done. The staircase however I have no idea how to arrange...

4. We have carbon infused with vinylester and a special gelcoat. Here it is in white and a silvery grey. It can be painted as well.

5. The lower helm you should try out, remember that all screens can be controlled with a remote from the chairs as well. The visibility is much better with the windscreens angled this way so the wipers will probably be OK, but there are other wiper solutions.

In general, this boat is built to be as light as possible, to be fast and fuel efficient with a good range. This is one reason why we don´t have a full flybridge, and a fixed roof on top of that...

/Lars
 
Designo said:
if you would like to sacrifice the operation of the forward glass hatch for a longer flybridge, it can be done.
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I'd rather sacrifice the glass hatch entirely.
I understand that it can impress someone at a boat show, but other than that I can't see what's there for, to be honest.
 
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