New Boat Survey

[kevingreystones]

I am considering my next boat purchase and would appreciate comments / recommendations on whether it is sensible to instruct a survey on a brand new boat.

 

[Momac]

I would say yes it is sensible.

A friend has just bought a used yacht. A defect has been identified , which is repairable. However the defect originates from the time the boat was built.

 

[jrudge]

I didn't have a survey ( Squadron 65) - to be honest I did not really consider one.

The boat had snags. Nothing that stopped it moving but there were plenty. I have had several surveys done on boats and I have mostly found things in addition to the surveyor that are irritating, expensive but don't impact the boat per se. Noisy AC, reverse cycle not working etc etc. Things that take time and an understanding of how it works and what it should do. On my last boat this lot added up to £10k paid for by the vendor ( who was a boat dealer). Things also take time to go wrong which a survey wont find. As times passes things seem to settle down and it all works as one ( for a while anyway).

I would suspect that this is the type of thing that a new boat survey would need to pick up to make it worthwhile, and in my view the things the surveyors are not very good at.

I am assuming it is a known manufacture production model. If not then a survey maybe wise, similarly if it is hull 1 or 2 a surveyor might have value.

I would recommend that away from family etc you meet the selling dealer pre making payment and spend some considerable time going over the boat from end to end in fine detail which can be a combined hand over and personal review of issues and the opportunity to check it all works.

I would also recommend a sea trial to listen for rattles and squeaks which the factory can usually know how to fix as they put it together.

Do this before you make the final payment and pay once they have fixed it. There was a reason the Fairline facility at Ipswich had a huge stock or spare parts .... as soon as you head to the med etc parts become slower.

If possible try to do this a good time before you are forced into taking the boat due to holidays and the season slipping away. Mine arrived in mallorca on the 5th August and nothing was going to stop me .... which is not really the best idea to be honest.

 

[stelican]

I didn't have a survey ( Squadron 65) - to be honest I did not really consider one.

The boat had snags. Nothing that stopped it moving but there were plenty. I have had several surveys done on boats and I have mostly found things in addition to the surveyor that are irritating, expensive but don't impact the boat per se. Noisy AC, reverse cycle not working etc etc. Things that take time and an understanding of how it works and what it should do. On my last boat this lot added up to £10k paid for by the vendor ( who was a boat dealer). Things also take time to go wrong which a survey wont find. As times passes things seem to settle down and it all works as one ( for a while anyway).

I would suspect that this is the type of thing that a new boat survey would need to pick up to make it worthwhile, and in my view the things the surveyors are not very good at.

I am assuming it is a known manufacture production model. If not then a survey maybe wise, similarly if it is hull 1 or 2 a surveyor might have value.

I would recommend that away from family etc you meet the selling dealer pre making payment and spend some considerable time going over the boat from end to end in fine detail which can be a combined hand over and personal review of issues and the opportunity to check it all works.

I would also recommend a sea trial to listen for rattles and squeaks which the factory can usually know how to fix as they put it together.

Do this before you make the final payment and pay once they have fixed it. There was a reason the Fairline facility at Ipswich had a huge stock or spare parts .... as soon as you head to the med etc parts become slower.

If possible try to do this a good time before you are forced into taking the boat due to holidays and the season slipping away. Mine arrived in mallorca on the 5th August and nothing was going to stop me .... which is not really the best idea to be honest.

Excellent advice.
I spent a period of time commissioning many boats and completely agree with you.

 

[jfm]

I wouldn’t, and didn’t with the 4 boats I’ve bought new. But it depends whether you’re able to check it yourself and whether finding out snags pre delivery really helps you, as distinct from finding them later with a good dealer to cure them. Better idea imho is to buy from BCU or another super effective dealer.

I dont agree j’s advice to withhold payment. Invariably the builder won’t hand over ownership without full payment, and when buying a new boat you want ownership as fast as you can get it because of credit risk. I made full final payment on my current boat when it was in the factory 3/4 finished, because I then got absolute ownership. That cures your credit risk which is more important imho than retaining leverage over snag fixing.

 

[IDAMAY]

I didn't have a survey on any of the seven new boats I bought. However, I did use them pretty heavily in the early days to identify the inevitable snags that arise. In all cases the manufacturer/dealer provided great support and rectified the problems quickly and efficiently.

 

[Bigplumbs]

With a new boat is there not some sort of defects rectification/guarantee period like there is on a new car for example.... If not I would have thought there needs to be

 

[Newbroom]

Depends on the builder

 

[petem]

For me, it would be more important to understand what best practice is for "commissioning" the boat. For example, I know that Essex used to drill extra drain holes in certain places and I believe stelican of this parish used to waxoyl all connections when he used to commission boats.

 

[jrudge]

I dont agree j’s advice to withhold payment. Invariably the builder won’t hand over ownership without full payment, and when buying a new boat you want ownership as fast as you can get it because of credit risk. I made full final payment on my current boat when it was in the factory 3/4 finished, because I then got absolute ownership. That cures your credit risk which is more important imho than retaining leverage over snag fixing.

I agree they wont give you the boat without payment, but I assume that an acceptance inspection and sea trial before handing over the final payment ( or if the final payment is large then suitable cash sum retention - £50 k say) would be acceptable? I have in mind here is the list, fi it by Friday I pay and take it away.

In my case I could not pay them fast enough as I wanted the boat and it was late - the one in front was the first to have Stabilisers. I also agree re the credit risk. Fairline were in an interesting position at the time and we had transfer of title as we paid - but the real value of that if it all goes bang is useful but not maybe that helpful.

Re wont the dealer fix it later? Yes they will, my dealer was Boats.co.uk who were great - but fixing at the manufactures facility is fast and simple. They have the parts, access to the right people etc. Also bear in mind anything of size has a high chance of going onto a ship to sunny shores.

The flip side of my suggestion is that most things go wrong with use - but you may as well start with a clean sheet!

 

[MapisM]

I made full final payment on my current boat when it was in the factory 3/4 finished, because I then got absolute ownership. That cures your credit risk which is more important imho than retaining leverage over snag fixing.

Hear, hear... Did you possibly know that the shareholders were going to arrange some additional securities on their own loans?

PS: Back to the OP point, aside from other considerations already mentioned, it also depends on the size/value involved.
For really big stuff, it's not unusual to appoint a surveyor to approve also the work in progress, before any stage payment.

 

[Bigplumbs]

Am I correct that Sunseeker are very good at after sales support

 

[Mr Googler]

Am I correct that Sunseeker are very good at after sales support

In my experience they are amazing even if you haven’t bought from them!

When I was shopping about, they were really helpful with background info on possible purchases....both private and from other brokers. I was super impressed.

 

[jfm]

I agree they wont give you the boat without payment, but I assume that an acceptance inspection and sea trial before handing over the final payment ( or if the final payment is large then suitable cash sum retention - £50 k say) would be acceptable? I have in mind here is the list, fi it by Friday I pay and take it away.

It's each to their own but I'm disagreeing and certainly did not do that with my last boat. I'm arguing that your strategy might be risky and that it can make sense to pay the full price for the boat when it is (approx) 75% finished at the factory and not even ready for a sea trial. You then get registered ownership and are protected if the company goes bust. It depends on the circumstances on the day but all of prin, sunseek, fairline, ferretti group, sealine, Bavaria, mangusta, leopard and many more have had "teetering on the brink" periods when you wouldn't want to extend material €€€ credit to them and it's a worrying moment when you hand over a lot of money to a company that has a smaller net worth and annual income, and owns less real estate, than you do, such is the "cottage industry" nature of boat building.
I realise that paying early removes your leverage on snagging. Also I have never heard of builder's agreeing £50k retentions but would be interested if others have successfully negotiated this.

 

[jrudge]

I can fully see where you are coming from. I suppose the word retention does not help as it sort of suggests title has passed, maybe final payment post inspection and snagging was more accurate. No cash no splash as Mr Barke ( and no doubt others) says. The cash then keeps flowing of course ....

To be fair we had no issues with the boat as delivered other than groaning on anchor ( and I am not sure I would have noticed it on a sea trail as you don't really anchor and have lunch !) that was never really resolved. - Ipswich seems to do a good job. The faults tend to appear over the coming months - Garmin kit which I like being the biggest single culprit.

I was just trying to reflect back on the experience as to what I might do differently and suggest to others, but equally the credit risk issue is very real - Fairline were in a pretty poor state at the time we bought.

 

[petem]

No cash no splash as Mr Barke ( and no doubt others) says.

LOL - that's not the real saying!

No Splash, no .....

No Armani, no .....

No Spray, no .....