New Boat Show in February 2022 at the NEC Birmingham

[lustyd]

I think I probably agree it won't be a better show. I actually think Excel failed because everyone was too tired and annoyed by the time they got there, and then they wanted £8/pint and £10 for a sandwich. I'd happily go to Southampton twice a year, a boat show in winter keeps the spirits up despite the cold!

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

The number of people able to get to a London show and home again with a journey time of an hour to two hours each way is much higher for London than Birmingham. We could get from Essex to Southhampton and back fairly comfortably for the show but Birmingham and back would be a trial, and more so for those south of London. Even if technically similar, the journey to Birmingham means overcoming a psychological step.

Agree, a psychological step, but probably not correct population wide. NEC very easy access from Liverpool, Manchester by both road and rail, Sheffield, Nottingham Leicester, by road, North London and Southampton by road and rail and, of course, West Midlands. The key thing is the type of show.

 

[laika]

Agree, a psychological step, but probably not correct population wide. NEC very easy access from Liverpool, Manchester by both road and rail, Sheffield, Nottingham Leicester, by road, North London and Southampton by road and rail and, of course, West Midlands.

London and the south east are disproportionately crowded. While I don't have stats to hand (does anyone? If not maybe I'll ask the RYA..) my suspicion is that people who sail for recreation disproportionately live in London and the south (east/west and obviously central), both because people who live there are more likely to be introduced to sailing by friends and family than people who live in Liverpool and Manchester and because people who sail are more likely to chose to move/retire to places with easy access to the south coast. Birmingham is well placed as a compromise for access by the UK as a whole and therefore a fine location for an exhibition where punters will be drawn equally from all regions but maybe johnalison's point holds for sailing. After all, for Scottish and Irish sailors Birmingham is still "far" and less flight-accessible than London.

I had a look at the trains to Birmingham: It's surprisingly easy from London but from southampton, although there's a direct train every couple of hours, you'd be spending over 7 hours travelling including transfers at each end, it's £100 second class with an off-peak day return and you'd need to book a seat in advance.

I hope an NEC boat show is a success and enjoyed by sailors in the midlands and beyond but as someone who hasn't crossed the 52nd parallel in the UK this century I tend to side with johnalison on this one.

 

[lustyd]

That would make sense, except that Excel's location makes it difficult, expensive, and time consuming to get to from the South East too!

 

[AngusMcDoon]

...people who sail for recreation disproportionately live in London and the south (east/west and obviously central), both because people who live there are more likely to be introduced to sailing by friends and family than people who live in Liverpool and Manchester and because people who sail are more likely to chose to move/retire to places with easy access to the south coast.

The reason is because that's where most of the money is in the UK. If you sail round the UK stopping in a few marinas you'll soon see the difference between the value of boats in a Hamble marina compared to Grimsby for example. Boat exhibitors want to be near the centre of disposable income, not people.

 

[laika]

That would make sense, except that Excel's location makes it difficult, expensive, and time consuming to get to from the South East too!

I think we've discussed this before in the context of the old London show. Your personal location and circumstances may make a particular place less accessible but London is the most connected city in the country and excel is close to road, rail, riverboat, tube, dlr, busses, city airport and even the cable car over the thames. West London might be more convenient for more people but you wouldn't have the benefit of the river (which seemed sadly underused by the London show), there's not a similar venue I can think of (which isn't to say there isn't...) and not an issue for most of us but probably for Scottish/Irish/International visitors, air access is not so good (Yes "Heathrow" but Heathrow takes an age to navigate so nowhere near as convenient for short haul travel).

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Agree, a psychological step, but probably not correct population wide. NEC very easy access from Liverpool, Manchester by both road and rail, Sheffield, Nottingham Leicester, by road, North London and Southampton by road and rail and, of course, West Midlands. The key thing is the type of show.

NEC has easy access from East Anglia by road, too. Basically it's not far from the junction of the M6 and M1, so there it is well connected to the motorway network.

 

[lustyd]

London is the most connected city

It is indeed, but anyone who's ever been to Excel will tell you that it's nowhere near London!

 

[flaming]

London and the south east are disproportionately crowded. While I don't have stats to hand (does anyone? If not maybe I'll ask the RYA..) my suspicion is that people who sail for recreation disproportionately live in London and the south (east/west and obviously central), both because people who live there are more likely to be introduced to sailing by friends and family than people who live in Liverpool and Manchester and because people who sail are more likely to chose to move/retire to places with easy access to the south coast.

When I worked for NBS (and hence the BMF) we had data from some big participation surveys that put the centre of gravity of UK "boaters" somewhere just south of Reading. That was about 10 years ago, but I doubt it's changed much.

I think we've discussed this before in the context of the old London show. Your personal location and circumstances may make a particular place less accessible but London is the most connected city in the country and excel is close to road, rail, riverboat, tube, dlr, busses, city airport and even the cable car over the thames. West London might be more convenient for more people but you wouldn't have the benefit of the river (which seemed sadly underused by the London show), there's not a similar venue I can think of (which isn't to say there isn't...) and not an issue for most of us but probably for Scottish/Irish/International visitors, air access is not so good (Yes "Heathrow" but Heathrow takes an age to navigate so nowhere near as convenient for short haul travel).

The problem with the water at Excel was mainly that it was January. People simply didn't want to go outside because it was freezing. One year it snowed a lot during the show. The guys manning the boats that were on the dock that year were really unhappy chaps. Not only was it unpleasant to be out there and they were getting almost no visitors, but it doesn't really show a multi million pound boat in its best light....

I think I probably agree it won't be a better show. I actually think Excel failed because everyone was too tired and annoyed by the time they got there, and then they wanted £8/pint and £10 for a sandwich. I'd happily go to Southampton twice a year, a boat show in winter keeps the spirits up despite the cold!

Excel failed because the costs of things like hotels, staff food costs etc rose every year, whilst at the same time people's ability to google prices from the stand meant that the sales weren't always going to the people who had paid the price of exhibiting and being on hand to explain the product... So year by year some companies made the decision not to exhibit, which made the show less attractive to the visitors, which made fewer people want to come, which made more companies choose not to exhibit, and so on until the big boys started pulling out and the whole house of cards came down.
By comparison Southampton is close to the vast majority of marine businesses, so most exhibitors don't need to accommodate staff away from home. And the marina makes it very easy for small yards/dealers to exhibit 1 or 2 boats without stand build costs, trucking the boats costs, crane costs etc etc. Even though the charge levied by the Show for a marina berth is considerably higher than the charge for the space needed to exhibit the boat on land the overall cost was normally less, and the hassle factor obviously much less. All they need to do it clean the boat and deliver it to the Show, which meant far less time away from their business arranging exhibition stands etc. This changes the economics for the smaller exhibitors quite markedly.

At the same time I think that with the benefit of hindsight the London visitors who completed the survey weren't being especially honest, or at least were not representative. All the feedback we had for years was that people wanted demonstrations etc. So when I started at NBS we did this. We had liferaft demos in the big pool, cruising chute and spinnaker demos on a purpose built rig with big fans, talks on our "knowledge box" from experts in everything from diesel engines to weather, to Tom Cunliffe, Mike Golding etc. All of which were amazing.
All of which were promoted heavily but done to tiny audiences. Frequently 10-15 people on a day where over 10,000 had come through the door. Biggest audience was always for the pro wakeboarding display. At the same time I was reading "reviews of the show" on these boards which didn't even mention the massive pool, or any of the amazing talks from real experts, but were just annoyed that X brand of boat wasn't there, and that the food was a little pricey...

So my biggest concern with an NEC show is exactly that... Can they get enough kit in to satisfy, well, you lot basically... Because based on hard won experience I'm pretty sure that only that will actually make people want to return for year 2.

 

[laika]

It is indeed, but anyone who's ever been to Excel will tell you that it's nowhere near London!

I went most years from the mid 2000s to the year before it finished, was living in London at the time and respectfully disagree. It's Zone 3 and half an hour from waterloo by tube/DLR. As most folk undoubtedly would, I'll agree with your cost points, both exorbitant refreshment costs (which aren't that much better at Southampton) and what people have said about cost to exhibitors, but I do believe accessibility was good.

As ever, flaming makes good points about why the river access wasn't as useful as I thought it might be (apart from riverboat as a travel option which I'm not sure *was* an option when the London boat show was at excel).

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I went most years from the mid 2000s to the year before it finished, was living in London at the time and respectfully disagree. It's Zone 3 and half an hour from waterloo by tube/DLR. As most folk undoubtedly would, I'll agree with your cost points, both exorbitant refreshment costs (which aren't that much better at Southampton) and what people have said about cost to exhibitors, but I do believe accessibility was good.

As ever, flaming makes good points about why the river access wasn't as useful as I thought it might be (apart from riverboat as a travel option which I'm not sure *was* an option when the London boat show was at excel).

As a former London resident, I can understand both points of view expressed about the accessibility of Excel. From the point of view of a Londoner or someone who commutes into London, Excel is as accessible as anywhere in London; it's on the commuter network and the length of the journey is no different to that of other comparable places. So, someone operating in and around London will regard it as accessible. But someone arriving at a mainline station to find that they've got at least a further half-hour travel, with one or two changes, is going to regard that as an intolerable inconvenience, especially if carrying bags. I lived in London for 5 years, and so I don't find the underground and similar services particularly daunting - I know where to look for the signs in the tube stations, and usually guess right when turning towards the exit! But people who haven't done it on a daily basis find the tube confusing and difficult. Both points of view are reasonable. The advantage of the NEC is that it is designed round vast car parks; it really IS easy of access; you arrive and there it is!

 

[dgadee]

Birmingham isn't North - Midlands at best! North starts at Sheffield!

My uncle farmed along from John o'Groats. He was telling me about a rifle competition he was organising. "They are coming up from the south", he said. I asked where. "All the way from Inverness", he said.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Birmingham isn't North - Midlands at best! North starts at Sheffield!

The north starts at Perth. Any fule kno that.

 

[JumbleDuck]

As a former London resident, I can understand both points of view expressed about the accessibility of Excel. From the point of view of a Londoner or someone who commutes into London, Excel is as accessible as anywhere in London; it's on the commuter network and the length of the journey is no different to that of other comparable places.

One issue is the multiplicity of routes and the effect of conflicting traffic. I used to work at a show at Excel which had around 10,000 attendees arrive between 9 and 10am. After a lot of experiment, and a lot of time waiting for boardable trains at Canning Town, I found that the quickest way to get there from central London (at that time) was Jubilee Line to North Greenwich, cable car, walk.

The Boat Show never generated enough traffic to require that route, though I tended to use it anyway because it's fun.