Nelson project.

Ill try again, second time my post will not show.

So, yes start a new build thread, helps folk keep up and more personal to it.

good luck and looking forward to it.
 
Sorry Ben, been working all day.
I see what you mean now. I believe that it’s the electronics that are the difficult bit. None of the ISBe plans fit the marine calibrations and access to this stuff is pretty restricted. Paul will explain more fully i’m sure.
Cheers
 
burgundyben said:
No, doesn't explain it.

You are taking a ISBe, converting to mech and then marinising.

Why not take a ISBe and marinise? Is it not possible to get inside the ECU to adjust the fuelling tables?
Click to expand...

Ben,

Cummins Core software is not easy to 'tune' requires the Cummins Calterm engineering tool, however not just tuning Euro 3 CM800 automotive calibrations, they have features such as idle validation which makes them difficult to pair with electronic throttle heads designed for marine use which have no idle validation, governor droops are quite different between automotive and marine, Jonathan will explain how his QSB's reacted when Miss Daisy became aiborne, re writing all this stuff would takes hours. I had a guy who did the Cummins Railton calibration, it took him 7 weekends to write the automotive cal which still took a lot of testing to validate, however the guy was poached by Watsila and then in turn by Iveco reserch in Switzerland.

Higher flow marine injectors from Cummins QSB help a lot certainly not straight forward, Jonathan was offered some new old stock QSB 5.9 480's at about £12k each plus VAT etc when he was going racing but nobody to tune, I have a copy of the QSB 5.9 960 hp 3,300 rpm calibration but this blows the doors off the oil cooler capacity and splits the block at the main bearing saddle, pulling this QSB cal back to 750 hp with additional heat exchanger would have been ideal for racing all OK with Cummins CM2150 ECM if you can find recources but CM2150 marine cals will not load into automotive CM800.

Going front gear drive makes driving raw water pump simple, you CAN use Cummins rear gear drive PTO adapter to enable fitment of a John Deere spec Sherwood raw water pump or use Iveco NEF raw water pump however you are looking at the thick end of £2k just to solve that puzzle.

I would love to turn electronic CM800 ISBe 4 or 6 into a QSB lookalike, remember QSB 5.9 was a low torque narrow straght cut front gear drive motor, ISBe is wide high torque rear gear drive. I have been weeks just building a Power Point presentaion on how engine was created using 90% Cummins parts however trying to expain without the detail can result in a brainfart, despite looking the same 24 valve QSB heads are cast from a different iron, have Inconel exhaust valves different length head bolts require different torque and sequence, even selecting correct head gasket is far from simple you require surplus material to slice up when you have no other way of finding the answer.
 

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Hullo Jonathon

Sounds like another exiting project for you! although 1000hp to provide 30+ knots is a lot of fuel to plough a very big trench... I can't believe you want to go so slowly, not like you at all!

Another option I would have thought would be to fit some aftermarket ECUs - NIRA seems to be the one most regularly used by Marinediesel and others, I am sure Paul knows all about them.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NIRA-i7r-diesel-standalone-engine-management-ecu/161101118935?hash=item25825ffdd7:g:yy4AAOxykYtSKFyv:rk:1:pf:0

£6k for a pair plus off the shelf marinisation parts might be a less complex way to go.

P.
 
Scarron said:
Hullo Jonathon

Sounds like another exiting project for you! although 1000hp to provide 30+ knots is a lot of fuel to plough a very big trench... I can't believe you want to go so slowly, not like you at all!

Another option I would have thought would be to fit some aftermarket ECUs - NIRA seems to be the one most regularly used by Marinediesel and others, I am sure Paul knows all about them.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NIRA-i7r-diesel-standalone-engine-management-ecu/161101118935?hash=item25825ffdd7:g:yy4AAOxykYtSKFyv:rk:1:pf:0

£6k for a pair plus off the shelf marinisation parts might be a less complex way to go.

P.
Click to expand...

Exactly! That was about to be my next question!

If the Cummins ECU is difficult to get into, chuck it in the bin and get an aftermarket ECU.
 
You lost me miles back. I do remember during a round Britain powerboat race in the 80s one came into Hayle and dismantled an engine on a tarpaulin on the (very) dusty quay. It all looked a bit strange, it was a truck diesel block converted to petrol.
 
burgundyben said:
Exactly! That was about to be my next question!

If the Cummins ECU is difficult to get into, chuck it in the bin and get an aftermarket ECU.
Click to expand...

If life were so simple, Bosch EDC and Cummins Core software have cylinder balance algorithim NIRA does not, cylinder balance adusts individual power balance beween cylinders also measures crank velocity, likewise the algorithims such as unintended fuelling algorithim and progressive marine governor droop, dropping rail pressure before reducing fuel volume would take many hours to write, certainly beyond my capabilities. Writing engine management software is beyond my capabilities and paying, pockets not deep enough. Working out and testing AFC tables would take hours and my dyno is steady state not transient, transient dyno time has to be £1,000 a day.

I have taken proven 12 valve 370B 3,000 rpm calibration with the AFC tables already worked out then increased delivery valve size which will give a pretty much linear increase in power, however with change in plans 450hp @ 3,000 SHOULD pop out the box with Holset Hx40 instead of originally planned Holset Hx55.
 
Morning Paul(lescarron). I’m getting too old for all the whiz bang stuff and I can always come for a ride with you when my adrenaline needs attention! A Nelson at 30+ knots in a head sea will be pretty impressive I promise. It also includes the rest of the family that the Hunton never would. Selling Q left a small opportunity to ‘increase the stable’ with authorisation from her indoors.
Although I’m not familiar with the eBay kit it’s a bit too ‘out there’ for me. The engines we’re putting together will be 100% reliable and bullet proof, tried and tested. The concept was originally for racing which is pretty demanding. Although the Nelson option will be easier on their loading reliability is still high on the list.
My ‘shed time’ is the highlight of the month, I don’t want to accelerate it.
Cheers
 
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This guy appears to be running a 24v mechanical motor with P pump, not sure if he did the same thing as you are?

I note his seems to be 5.9 not 6.7.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n-XqSb0iyI

Is this kit effectively the same thing that you are doing?

http://www.scheiddiesel.com/98.5-02-Dodge-P7100-Conversion-Kit-with-Stainless-Steel-Fuel-Lines/

Interesting stuff, I guess if someone else is doing it then it vindicates your attempt too, good news!

But, playing devils advocate, those algorithms in the software, surely are the brilliance of it, with that in mind its hard not to see a mech pump conversion as a retrograde step, even if it is done for sound reasons.
 
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A little of the last 3 years work…..
I managed to find an unofficial Trinity House archivist who had some pictures and history:

CF0710FA-F351-413A-853F-CBEB014B7073.jpeg

The power behind the speed. Yanmar 6ly 440hp.
19434B79-72EF-499A-B474-14B8130D1864.jpeg

The props. Specials from Hamble props.

C555C009-405A-4B16-B584-66C79DCEE7FC.jpeg
 
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