Needles crossing and round the island passage

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Tom41

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Hello All, I'm new to the forum, thanks for all the useful threads ive been reading.
I'm planning to go around the island starting at slack (HW+4/5) anticlockwise. it will be early morning so i plan to stay overnight at Yarmouth. I've done the north channel few times and needles once on the way into solent (when going round the island clockwise). again at slack and with F5W. it was ok.
all in all i dont have much experience of the needles as you can see and I would appreciate some advise in the planning particularly in relation to abort options and basic go/no-go weather considerations.
as the boat can do 6 kts motoring i assume (and i read in other threads) i can go back in theory at any time through the nort channel if at spring or peak of tide would be best. but my fundamental question is of course the weather.
-which are in your opinion the weather condition where i should call it a no-go? eg a F6N probably would make a comeback option very difficult against the tide in the needles so i would need to go through north channel (though is a lee shore?).
- and also please which are the weather conditions in general that would make round the island not advisable? F6 against the tide would be my take (not impossible but would be unpleasant and probably not aligned with the crew). but i look forward to hear other opinions. many thanks in advance
 
The Needles can be a pussy cat. I've also been through in a SW F7 on a fully crewed race boat and that was interesting.

The worst thing is wind or leftover swell from the SW. So beware if there have been strong winds the day before. With that in mind, Northerlies are good as they'll mean there's not so much fetch.

Watch out for the tide sweeping you over the Shingles, so have a transit you can reference for being pushed sideways. Don't cut the corner like they do in the RTIR as the boilers seem to survive the annual clunk quite well.

In terms of tidal strategy you'd want to be going out of the Needles on the last of the ebb, when it is at its worst, in order to get the flood pushing you along the south coast.

You don't say what boat you have but better to be over cautious if you're unsure. Maybe go for a forecast F4 or 5 the first time. Remember also that sea breezes will kick in if it is only a light northerly and they'll go SW'ly eventually, but the range is short so it won't build up the swell like a good blow in the English Channel.
 
All noted thank you very much lpdsn, boat is a 37'. I agree with going F4-5 top. and will avoid if strong SW previous day. should i be in trouble and need to come back, are there conditions where needles is more advisable of the N channel at all? thanks again
 
Tom41 said:
All noted thank you very much lpdsn, boat is a 37'. I agree with going F4-5 top. and will avoid if strong SW previous day. should i be in trouble and need to come back, are there conditions where needles is more advisable of the N channel at all? thanks again
Click to expand...

The only way to come back via the North Channel is to get completely out via the Needles Channel. If conditions are bad you are better off continuing if you can't turn around in enough time. Anything that is causing breakers in the Needles Channel will be causing breakers on the tail of the Shingles so you don't even want to think about risking cutting the corner to head north.

Once out, it'll calm down a bit and you can continue on your way.

The time to turn around is as early as possible. Spray from any breakers on the Shingles is generally obvious and that would be your warning sign as you started to go down the channel.

That said, if you're careful about your forecast it'll be a real pussy cat.
 
If the wind is 5 or so from the SW you will know the worst from leaving Yarmouth to Hurst Pt so you can decide if you want to go further. If you continue, once at the Needles and you turn East it will be a doddle with the wind behind you.
If it's blowing from the East, all will appear hunky dory till you get to the Needles, then you will have a hard slog into wind along the South coast, so your best bet is to change destination to Poole :)
North wind is best as your sheltered along the South coast and only feel the wind when your heading back into the Solent, but you will have had a good days sail by then.
A strongish South wind will make getting to the Needles hard work and make for a bumpy trip along the South coast.
Sorry if that's all fairly obvious.
 
Advice to the RTIR racers is always keep the coastguard building on the top of the cliffs above the top of the lighthouse to avoid the Varvassi. This is fairly generous but if you're just cruising you may wish to leave a bit more room. Keep a good eye out for pots in the Needles channel...they are often towed under.

Bear in mind it can often get a bit lumpy around St. Cats so watch out for that one, I got pooped in a 42 footer with a big sugar scoop transom a few years ago...one minute I'm standing steering, the next I'm up to my knees!

Assuming it's a prevailing westerly, it can suddenly get quite windy at Bembridge when you turn upwind and come out the lee of the island, so you might want to pop a reef in before you get there.
 
lpdsn said:
The only way to come back via the North Channel is to get completely out via the Needles Channel. If conditions are bad you are better off continuing if you can't turn around in enough time. Anything that is causing breakers in the Needles Channel will be causing breakers on the tail of the Shingles so you don't even want to think about risking cutting the corner to head north.

Once out, it'll calm down a bit and you can continue on your way.

The time to turn around is as early as possible. Spray from any breakers on the Shingles is generally obvious and that would be your warning sign as you started to go down the channel.

That said, if you're careful about your forecast it'll be a real pussy cat.
Click to expand...

clear thanks. last one if i may, in terms of tidal strategy,
i mentioned HW+4 would probably match your suggestion (end of ebb) however is very early in the mornign it depends if i manage to kick the crew out of bed :) but otherwise at slack i still have an hour or so to get out of shingles and turn SE near safewater mark, in time for the flood to start pushing me along the S coast. hope it makes sense? thanks
 
Tom41 said:
clear thanks. last one if i may, in terms of tidal strategy,
i mentioned HW+4 would probably match your suggestion (end of ebb) however is very early in the mornign it depends if i manage to kick the crew out of bed :) but otherwise at slack i still have an hour or so to get out of shingles and turn SE near safewater mark, in time for the flood to start pushing me along the S coast. hope it makes sense? thanks
Click to expand...
I would go a bit earlier than Portsmouth +4 so as not to fight the back eddy getting to the Needles.
 
Tom41 said:
i mentioned HW+4 would probably match your suggestion (end of ebb) however is very early in the mornign it depends if i manage to kick the crew out of bed :)
Click to expand...

Do you have a specific day in mind for the trip?

I see LadyInBed has posted tidal info for you. I don't think there's anywhere in the world that has the tides mapped in as much detail as the Solent & IoW.

One thing with getting the tides exactly right at the Needles is that you're usually too early at the E end of the island and hit the last part of the flood coming through the Solent, which is why it is usually a small boat that wins the RTIR.

So being a bit late won't be too much of a handicap all told, except that you'll be having to fight the flood down the Needles Channel if late. Also remember the warning in Reed's about the early flood being as bad as the ebb in the Needles Channel if it is rough.
 
lpdsn said:
Do you have a specific day in mind for the trip?

I see LadyInBed has posted tidal info for you. I don't think there's anywhere in the world that has the tides mapped in as much detail as the Solent & IoW.

One thing with getting the tides exactly right at the Needles is that you're usually too early at the E end of the island and hit the last part of the flood coming through the Solent, which is why it is usually a small boat that wins the RTIR.

So being a bit late won't be too much of a handicap all told, except that you'll be having to fight the flood down the Needles Channel if late. Also remember the warning in Reed's about the early flood being as bad as the ebb in the Needles Channel if it is rough.
Click to expand...

With wind over tide and Springs the race off St Catherines can be a bit lively. Keep well off. You should be OK if carrying the flood.
 
Iain C said:
Advice to the RTIR racers is always keep the coastguard building on the top of the cliffs above the top of the lighthouse to avoid the Varvassi. This is fairly generous but if you're just cruising you may wish to leave a bit more room. Keep a good eye out for pots in the Needles channel...they are often towed under.

Bear in mind it can often get a bit lumpy around St. Cats so watch out for that one, I got pooped in a 42 footer with a big sugar scoop transom a few years ago...one minute I'm standing steering, the next I'm up to my knees!

Assuming it's a prevailing westerly, it can suddenly get quite windy at Bembridge when you turn upwind and come out the lee of the island, so you might want to pop a reef in before you get there.
Click to expand...

all noted thanks very much Ian C
 
lpdsn said:
Do you have a specific day in mind for the trip?

I see LadyInBed has posted tidal info for you. I don't think there's anywhere in the world that has the tides mapped in as much detail as the Solent & IoW.

One thing with getting the tides exactly right at the Needles is that you're usually too early at the E end of the island and hit the last part of the flood coming through the Solent, which is why it is usually a small boat that wins the RTIR.

So being a bit late won't be too much of a handicap all told, except that you'll be having to fight the flood down the Needles Channel if late. Also remember the warning in Reed's about the early flood being as bad as the ebb in the Needles Channel if it is rough.
Click to expand...

Hi lpdsn, yes June 3rd, HW ~3am BST. seems ideally i should be at Hurst at 6.30 BST top?.. thanks
 
Tom41 said:
Hi lpdsn, yes June 3rd, HW ~3am BST. seems ideally i should be at Hurst at 6.30 BST top?.. thanks
Click to expand...

OK, fingers crossed for the wind being right. If the rest of the crew are secured in their bunks you could just start off with one crew member to release the mooring and help hoist the sails, so not everyone has to get up at once. There are mooring buoys off Yarmouth.
 
lpdsn said:
OK, fingers crossed for the wind being right. If the rest of the crew are secured in their bunks you could just start off with one crew member to release the mooring and help hoist the sails, so not everyone has to get up at once. There are mooring buoys off Yarmouth.
Click to expand...

Yes absolutely though I think I'll book a walk ashore berth. Many thanks again for the useful tips lpdsn!! Tom
 
Tom, I'm not being horrible here, but what you have done is ask the team to do your homework - and they have done.

It would be much better if you did your own homework ie. passage plan and submit it here for appraisal. I think you will learn much faster. If you have made a mistake? Join the club. The team won't be nasty.

A plan B just in case will have them purring.
 
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