Navigation lights

[Kukri]

The following must be true - it comes from the Daily Mail!

Sarcasm again!

 

[Capt Popeye]

I knew I was ahead of my time, then, sarcasams great

long may it Rule

 

[Robin]

Works for me.

 

[Seagreen]

I have deck level lights, and thankfully as they are LEDs, I don't worry about the power. I have a conventional 20w steaming light, and considering the fitting of all round red and greens LEDs.

A problem with this is that they ought to have a 1m vertical separation. I can fit a small all round red no worries, but the green lights would need to be small and fixed to the mast, then still possibly shielded by the sails. My only solution would be a 2m pole hoisted on the masthead burgee halyard with battery powered LED light shells. Stowing the thing on deck would be a pain, though.

Update: A fishing rod blank, two small light shells and a battery pack at the base, like a Dan bouy ought to do fine. Light and strong. All I need do now is source some materials. Yet another winter job.

 

[Stork_III]

Red over green up the mast with sidelights is a good idea but a small boat the difficulty is getting the 1m vertical clearance between the all-round red and the all-round green.


It would require a change to the colregs to permit these two lights to be accommodated in a single fitting of reasonable dimensions. Maybe this has happened without me knowing.

A separation between all round red over all round green is not required at the mast head is it?. 1m vertical separation is required between deck sidelights and masthead (steaming) light.

extract IRPCS :-
25. Lights for sailing and rowing vessels
Sailing vessels underway and vessels under oars
(a) A sailing vessel underway shall exhibit: 1. sidelights; 2. a sternlight. (b) In a sailing vessel of less than 20 metres (66 ft) in length the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule may be combined in one lantern carried at or near the top of the mast where it can best be seen. (c) A sailing vessel underway may, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit at or near the top of the mast, where they can best be seen, two all-round lights in a vertical line, the upper being red and the lower green, but these lights shall not be exhibited in conjunction with the combined lantern permitted by paragraph (b) of this Rule. (d) 1. A sailing vessel of less than 7 metres (23.0 ft) in length shall, if practicable, exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule, but if she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision. 2. A vessel under oars may exhibit the lights prescribed in this Rule for sailing vessels, but if she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision. (e) A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards.

 

[JimC]

... The researchers said that being exposed to sarcasm required more ‘cognitive complexity’, or the ability to see things from more than one angle."

My point exactly

During the Inquiry into the sinking of the Ouzo I believe it was mentioned that a navigation light at masthead level can look like a deck-level light at a greater distance when seen from up on the bridge of a ship.

It's all to do with viewpoints and angles.

 

[snowleopard]

With a rotating mast, a tricolour is out. I have an all-round white and TWO sets of low-level lights (10w for sailing, 25w for motoring and no need to go on deck in the event of a bulb failure). I would like to have red/green at the masthead which would require pairs of lights on opposite sides of the mast but I have yet to find red & green lights that cover 180°+, let alone LED types.

 

[Seagreen]

With a rotating mast, a tricolour is out. I have an all-round white and TWO sets of low-level lights (10w for sailing, 25w for motoring and no need to go on deck in the event of a bulb failure). I would like to have red/green at the masthead which would require pairs of lights on opposite sides of the mast but I have yet to find red & green lights that cover 180°+, let alone LED types.

The green light fitting would need to be a strip of LEDs wrapped round the mast either side of the sail track. This ought to be visible from a distance 360deg even if the sail was obscuring part of it. A small series of powerful LEDs could be fitted into a hardened plastic fitting made in sections. I'm certain there are product engineers who could design one on the back of a fag packet in 5 minutes on this forum.

 

[VO5]

The green light fitting would need to be a strip of LEDs wrapped round the mast either side of the sail track. This ought to be visible from a distance 360deg even if the sail was obscuring part of it. A small series of powerful LEDs could be fitted into a hardened plastic fitting made in sections. I'm certain there are product engineers who could design one on the back of a fag packet in 5 minutes on this forum.

Exactly. Very easy to do. As the spinnaker pole track does not go so high to create an impediment the idea is easy to implement.

I have been sailing for many years and only seen a red over green twice, once in the Baltic and once in the Med. I estimated they were large sailers to judge by their speed, probably sail training ships, I suppose.

 

[Mike_Alpha]

The green light fitting would need to be a strip of LEDs wrapped round the mast either side of the sail track. This ought to be visible from a distance 360deg even if the sail was obscuring part of it. A small series of powerful LEDs could be fitted into a hardened plastic fitting made in sections. I'm certain there are product engineers who could design one on the back of a fag packet in 5 minutes on this forum.

My green allround is made up of two greens on the upper spreader both sides of the mast. No problem when seen from far enough from the boat!

Michael

 

[Rigger Mortice]

A separation between all round red over all round green is not required at the mast head is it?. 1m vertical separation is required between deck sidelights and masthead (steaming) light.

I had to check it , but Annex one tells us

(i) When the Rules prescribe two or three lights to be carried in a vertical line, they shall be placed as follows:

(i) on a vessel of 20 metres in length or more such lights shall be spaced not less than 2 metres apart, and the lowest of these lights shall, except where a towing light is required, be placed at a height of not less then 4 metres above the hull;

(ii) on a vessel of less than 20 metres in length such lights shall be spaced not less than 1 metre apart and the lower of these lights shall, except where a towing light is required, be placed at a height of not less than 2 metres above the hull:.

It makes sense I suppose. Two lights immediately next to eachother would probably just merge into a single colour at any distance.

 

[VO5]

The vertical separation between the red at the top and the green under ought to be six feet.

 

[Stork_III]

Thanks, not a lot of use then.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I would like to have red/green at the masthead which would require pairs of lights on opposite sides of the mast but I have yet to find red & green lights that cover 180°+, let alone LED types.

Surely you could just use all round lights and blank them off to give the 180° spread?

 

[jwilson]

Just don't have a stupid ensign on a stick obscuring the stern light.
That's my pet hate!

And yet another reason, apart from the often derided tradition, why ensigns should be taken down at night

 

[PeterR]

It was once pointed out that a tri-light on a yacht close to the observer, looks the same as a low level light on the horizon.

How does the watch know you are a yacht close to them with a light high up ? may be why all the ships are trying to hit you.


Brian

If they want to know the range they just look at their radar. The 3 ships that tried to hit me last year did so in bright sunlight and flat water when yachts were visible for miles and no one will convince me that they had not seen me. In each case they changed from what had been clearing courses onto collision courses within one mile of me. Some ships just have predetermined turning points as part of their passage plan and turn regardless of the consequences. Just read CHIRP reports if you doubt my word. They do it to other ships not just yachts.

Out at sea if a ship is going to change course to avoid you they usually make a small change of course when a long way off. You can often only tell by watching their AIS signal. If they are going to do that at night they need to be able to see your lights which at sea with lower lights is only possible at relatively short range. As far as I am concerned by the time they are looking down at my lights, even deck lights, they are already far too close.

As for what is actually happening with yacht lights just look at the latest copy of YM. The front cover has a new Halberg Rassey 31 where the genoa will clearly mask the bow light as soon as it is eased. The same goes for the Dehler 41 advertised on page 16 and the Hanse 445 on page 13. This holds true for virtually all new yachts with below deck furlers and about 50% of the rest. Add to that the stern light which on most yachts you look at is obscured for part of its legal arc by outboards, safety equipment, ensigns etc.

As I said I don’t argue with your preference for lower lights close inshore but give me a tri-colour at sea every time.

 

[Kukri]

Anyone in a boat should always keep in mind two points when at sea and in sight of ships:

1. The OOW may make a course alteration, possibly of an "early and substantial" nature, in response to another ship which is on his ARPA plot but which is not visible to you. Keep in mind that two large container ships, approaching each other, both making 24 knots, are closing at sixty miles per hour.

2. If altering onto a new course for navigational reasons, the OOW may decide, for possibly good reasons of his own, such as not waking passengers, or indeed not waking the Master, to make a slow and gradual course alteration, which you may not detect at all until too late.

 

[prv]

The vertical separation between the red at the top and the green under ought to be six feet.

Three feet (ish) according to Rigger just above you - at least, unless you sail something considerably bigger than I thought

Pete

 

[Jamesuk]

The vertical separation between the red at the top and the green under ought to be six feet.

I believe that is correct