Nantucket Clipper

[LONG_KEELER]

Shame that cruising yacht design followed the racing boats into massive genoas and small mains.

To be fair, most advances driven for success in racing have trickled down to cruising boats have been a good thing.
I agree that the fashion for masthead rigs does not really work for short crewed cruising boats. My current boat is a 3/4 rig with a big main and fits in perfectly for a single handed old man.

 

[newtothis]

To be fair, most advances driven for success in racing have trickled down to cruising boats have been a good thing.
I agree that the fashion for masthead rigs does not really work for short crewed cruising boats. My current boat is a 3/4 rig with a big main and fits in perfectly for a single handed old man.

Asking out of ignorance, but is it not easier to manage a large furling genoa than hauling a big old main sail? Ketches are often praised as cruising boats as they have smaller mains for that reason.

 

[johnalison]

Asking out of ignorance, but is it not easier to manage a large furling genoa than hauling a big old main sail? Ketches are often praised as cruising boats as they have smaller mains for that reason.

That used to be the case, though most of us in the ‘70s didn’t have furling genoas but had to change sails for different conditions. The main justification for a masthead rig was, I believe, that the centre of effort was kept lower and this allowed boats to carry a larger sail area, even though it had been established half a century or more earlier that a fractional rig was more efficient, probably from the model boat world. Furling genoas certainly helped for a while but the advent of good slab reefing systems, especially when done from the cockpit, made today’s fractional rigs even easier to handle. It is far easier to reef a main when on a reach or going to windward than to furl a large jib or Genoa.

 

[dunedin]

Asking out of ignorance, but is it not easier to manage a large furling genoa than hauling a big old main sail? Ketches are often praised as cruising boats as they have smaller mains for that reason.

Most people struggle to winch in a large masthead overlapping genoa, when tacking or just for sail trim.
By contrast most mainsheet systems are much easier to adjust, and don’t need to be touched when tacking (unless choosing to, for example, pullmtraveller to windward or doing a fully crewed racing tack where may ease briefly till regain speed)
And as Johnalison says, much of the previous claimed benefits of ease of handling of a ketch have been overtaken by modern systems - full battens, stack pack covers, slab reefing, power halyard winches etc.

 

[RupertW]

Most people struggle to winch in a large masthead overlapping genoa, when tacking or just for sail trim.
By contrast most mainsheet systems are much easier to adjust, and don’t need to be touched when tacking (unless choosing to, for example, pullmtraveller to windward or doing a fully crewed racing tack where may ease briefly till regain speed)
And as Johnalison says, much of the previous claimed benefits of ease of handling of a ketch have been overtaken by modern systems - full battens, stack pack covers, slab reefing, power halyard winches etc.

And I think that is why so many modern boats have furling almost- blade jibs rather than overlapping genoas. And then have furlong asymmetrics for light wind work.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Asking out of ignorance, but is it not easier to manage a large furling genoa than hauling a big old main sail? Ketches are often praised as cruising boats as they have smaller mains for that reason.

Good point. The game changer for me is the STAKPAC . Two easy lines from the cockpit to make a reef but what to do with the bunt all over the place , particularly if you are fully battened ? With the stack pack it just falls into the bag and with fully battened, the weight makes it even easier to fall. So both sails can be easily adjusted for the desired balance and comfort.

The limiter on main's may be swept back spreaders . I don't know how big a boat you can go to and still have them. Extra running stays would be a pain unless racing.

I note that things are changing on the big boat new builds, say with Oyster. Where they would have twin furling headsails they now have just one and fly a code 0. The code 0 can still be effective up to a close reach and apparently gives more flexability.

 

[Wansworth]

Had an Albin Vega was a real pain getting the 135% Genoa round the stays to tack whereas my mashford 4 toner with 7/8 rig was delightful under plain sail.As suggested better a offwind sail on aroller

 

[Kelpie]

Had an Albin Vega was a real pain getting the 135% Genoa round the stays to tack whereas my mashford 4 toner with 7/8 rig was delightful under plain sail.As suggested better a offwind sail on aroller

Interesting. We put a new genoa on our Vega almost as soon as we bought it (the old was very obviously terrible) and I went for 125%. Don't remember it being hard to tack.
So I think the size of the genoa must make quite a difference.

 

[Wansworth]

Th

Interesting. We put a new genoa on our Vega almost as soon as we bought it (the old was very obviously terrible) and I went for 125%. Don't remember it being hard to tack.
So I think the size of the genoa must make quite a difference.

ink we would have been happy with a Genoa just reaching the cap shroud,high cut so we could see underneath in crowded waters

 

[doug748]

Interesting. We put a new genoa on our Vega almost as soon as we bought it (the old was very obviously terrible) and I went for 125%. Don't remember it being hard to tack.
So I think the size of the genoa must make quite a difference.

Indeed, the big deck sweeping genoas of yore were light weather sails and in the bag at 10 knots. Many boats of this era take no harm with 125% or less for general work.

The differences between masthead and fractional are grossly exaggerated, there is no essential reason why either rig needs to hugely favour either the main or genoa. Look at the Nicholson 32:





Many fractional boats fix the forestay a foot below the masthead, in terms of relative sail areas a trivial distinction on a cruising boat

.

 

[Wansworth]

Indeed, the big deck sweeping genoas of yore were light weather sails and in the bag at 10 knots. Many boats of this era take no harm with 125% or less for general work.

The differences between masthead and fractional are grossly exaggerated, there is no essential reason why either rig needs to hugely favour either the main or genoa. Look at the Nicholson 32:

View attachment 144262



Many fractional boats fix the forestay a foot below the masthead, in terms of relative sail areas a trivial distinction on a cruising boat

.looks a handy rig

Looks a good sized/shaped jib for general use

 

[srm]

Looks a good sized/shaped jib for general use

Yes, what used to be known as a "working jib" in the days of hank on sails for obvious reasons.