30boat
N/A
That may be ,I still prefer the bronze gears on my Monitor.
Mr V Windvane
- Thread starter hoppy1848
- Start date
Wandering Star
Well-known member
I have nothing but praise for the Aries. I've sailed on one boat fitted with a Hydrovane and the performance wasn't in the same ball park as my Aries. I think the servo pendulum method is unbeatable. Certainly the Aries requires string in the cockpit which the Hydrovane doesn't, but that disadvantage is to my mind outweighed by the Aries superior performance. I also like the idea of the Hydrovanes ability to double up as an emergency steering system.
The Monitor and several other systems are designs based on Aries technology, I'm sure I'd be equally pleased with the Monitors performance too and I understand the Monitor can be fitted with a rudder for emergency steering so possibly, if I could be convinced with the stainless steel construction, it might be a better choice than the Aries. However I've never used a Monitor so can't really offer a judgement.
My opinions are just that, my opinions!
The Monitor and several other systems are designs based on Aries technology, I'm sure I'd be equally pleased with the Monitors performance too and I understand the Monitor can be fitted with a rudder for emergency steering so possibly, if I could be convinced with the stainless steel construction, it might be a better choice than the Aries. However I've never used a Monitor so can't really offer a judgement.
My opinions are just that, my opinions!
blenkinsop
Member
The Monitor we bought third hand completed its 3rd circumnavigation with us, with only minor repairs and regular maintenance.
Casual observation suggested that the Monitor and Hydrovane were the most popular windvanes among long distance cruisers. Most boats with cruising couples had some sort. They were much more common than the impression given by surveys of ARC participants, who are probably a different sort of population to the majority of independent cruisers.
Casual observation suggested that the Monitor and Hydrovane were the most popular windvanes among long distance cruisers. Most boats with cruising couples had some sort. They were much more common than the impression given by surveys of ARC participants, who are probably a different sort of population to the majority of independent cruisers.
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Blueboatman
Well-known member
Re Wandering Star.
There was a very good article(may have been a mini series actually) ooh ages ago by then editor of YW Andrew Bray when he Hydrovane/Sadler raced to the States , TwoStar I think, not Ostar(?) , with the wise observation that it would, as vanes do, run away as apparent wind angle moved ahead with accelerated boat speed ...
I suppose some clever long distance person with time on their hands will eventually link a digitally driven autopilot ram with the wind vane using both to drive the pendulum or aux rudder, not 'either or' , and be able to set the parameters for yaw to get a straighter, faster distance run...
I am so out of touch with the state of the art auto piloting that must be the norm on Azab and such like these days...
There was a very good article(may have been a mini series actually) ooh ages ago by then editor of YW Andrew Bray when he Hydrovane/Sadler raced to the States , TwoStar I think, not Ostar(?) , with the wise observation that it would, as vanes do, run away as apparent wind angle moved ahead with accelerated boat speed ...
I suppose some clever long distance person with time on their hands will eventually link a digitally driven autopilot ram with the wind vane using both to drive the pendulum or aux rudder, not 'either or' , and be able to set the parameters for yaw to get a straighter, faster distance run...
I am so out of touch with the state of the art auto piloting that must be the norm on Azab and such like these days...
TimBennet
New member
Using a cheap tiller pilot to control the power of a servo pendulum gear, has been done for 25 years or so to my knowledge.
Unless Andrew Bray was sailing a Sadler Baracuda on steroids, servo-vane gears would have no problem responding to the changes in apparently wind from the acceleration of their other models!
Lightweight multihulls and openclass boats with reaching speeds in the mid teens are the ones that struggle.
30boat
N/A
In my experience it's the stainless construction of the Monitor that puts it on another level to other makes.Anyone with moderate skills can repair a Monitor.I had to fix mine when a wandering Spanish boat spent all night bashing it after having dragged(I wasn't on board).Taking it to bits was simplicity itself .The bronze gear (they're stainless on newer models)had stripped one tooth.That cost me 5€ to repair.I then welded new nuts on the air vane bracket myself and made a couple of knobs for the screws that clamp it in place.An Aries or a Sailomat for instance would have been much more complicated to fix.Granted the Monitor looks like a plumber's nightmare but more than makes up for it in practicallity and performance.
Blueboatman
Well-known member
Re Tim Bennett.
Indeed. I am thinking of something better than the standard lash up with a small tiller pilot ( i too have one of these), but a set up designed to ' kick in' only when ships heading is outside a specified yaw angle and because of faster speed achieved only cos the boat has headed off, and altered the app wind angle input to the vane...
I expect its been done, perhaps in AYRS territory..
Sadler 34 for Bray I believe . A real issue cos he wanted to sail fast and in the right direction!
I built a trim tab driven , tilting , ' over balanced ( ie it would naturally try to turn rather than trail, if uncontrolled) aux rudder vanegear that, in common with all good systems really could 'sense' each passing wave that tried to slew the stern off course. The rudder reacted correctly and proportionally to bring boat back on course before the wind component sensed a changing angle.
. i could watch that thing for hours casually snaking across the tradewind seas..
Re30Boat. Monitor do a natty, comprehensive service kit. One came with my boat and giving it a birthday took a pleasant sunny morning and no special tools to replace every bearing shim ball and spring.
Indeed. I am thinking of something better than the standard lash up with a small tiller pilot ( i too have one of these), but a set up designed to ' kick in' only when ships heading is outside a specified yaw angle and because of faster speed achieved only cos the boat has headed off, and altered the app wind angle input to the vane...
I expect its been done, perhaps in AYRS territory..
Sadler 34 for Bray I believe . A real issue cos he wanted to sail fast and in the right direction!
I built a trim tab driven , tilting , ' over balanced ( ie it would naturally try to turn rather than trail, if uncontrolled) aux rudder vanegear that, in common with all good systems really could 'sense' each passing wave that tried to slew the stern off course. The rudder reacted correctly and proportionally to bring boat back on course before the wind component sensed a changing angle.
. i could watch that thing for hours casually snaking across the tradewind seas..
Re30Boat. Monitor do a natty, comprehensive service kit. One came with my boat and giving it a birthday took a pleasant sunny morning and no special tools to replace every bearing shim ball and spring.
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Daydream believer
Well-known member
I have an Aeries lift up gear which is Ok ( I use it whenever i can even for short legs) but not entirely suited to a fin keel design which needs a fast adjustment to the tiller as it is so directionally unstable
If i bought another gear it would be the Monitor due to its lighter weight.
However, the windpilot is highly praised by its users
If i bought another gear it would be the Monitor due to its lighter weight.
However, the windpilot is highly praised by its users
KellysEye
Active member
>What? Quite an incredible statement.
Sorry I should have said Americans in the Caribbean don't sail long distances.
>Ever been to the Pacific? Full of US, Canadian, Australian, NZ yachts who have sailed long distances.
Long distance doesn't imply the use of wind vanes, which is what the thread is about, as I said the Australian and Kiwi yachts in the Caribbean weren't using wind vanes. Also the only Canadian yacht we saw, and sailed with from the UK, wasn't using one either. Many of the long distance boats have at least four crew and are happy to hand steer. Wind vanes are usually used by single handers and two crew.
Sorry I should have said Americans in the Caribbean don't sail long distances.
>Ever been to the Pacific? Full of US, Canadian, Australian, NZ yachts who have sailed long distances.
Long distance doesn't imply the use of wind vanes, which is what the thread is about, as I said the Australian and Kiwi yachts in the Caribbean weren't using wind vanes. Also the only Canadian yacht we saw, and sailed with from the UK, wasn't using one either. Many of the long distance boats have at least four crew and are happy to hand steer. Wind vanes are usually used by single handers and two crew.
SvenH
Active member
If allowed, I would like to address some of the issues that have come up in this thread.
If I remember correctly there were 3 participants in the 2008 Jester that had a 2007 model Mr. Vane self steering system fitted (Mr. Vane is the model, Mister Vee is the brand name).
A fourth with I think an xprmntl version did not start because he could not get his system working.
The first years the systems were shipped in parts to be self assembled by the customer.
All 2007 models of Mr. Vane had a design flaw that I myself had only discovered in 2008.
In short, the transmission geometry within the system allowed a movement that made the system lock up with the windvane swung out to the maximum position.
The windvane would at some point want to return to neutral but could not do so because it was locked, at which point it would put a very big sideways strain on the pushrod, eventually breaking the connecting bearing at the top of the pushrod .
One of the owners in the Jester fixed the broken bearing with another part that came with the system.
However, this part made the pushrod heavier, which would need to be compensated for by changing the counter weight inside the windvane.
If this counter weight is not equal to the weight of the pushrod, the system can never be in a dynamically stable setup an can not keep a stable course continuously.
This is true for all counter balanced windvane systems but because of the low overall weight of the Mister Vee parts, changing the counter weight is imperative when the weight of the pushrod is changed.
After finding out the trouble with the locking windvane I made some modifications and offered the parts for this free of charge.
But because of poor email management in the early days I was unable to reach out to all of the customers to offer the upgrade parts. I am afraid that user CPD is one of the customers I could not reach. I have tried contacting him because of this thread.
Before the 2007 version of Mr. Vane (which is still being sold today) there was the xprmntl version. This was sold at a rock bottom price to get feedback on the design and practicality.
There was a particular problem with the release mechanism of the pendulum rudder, it released way too quickly. As soon as I discovered this I developed a new way to connect the pendulum rudder and made that available to all customers free of charge. This mechanism is still in use in all systems, unchanged.
Until 2012 all systems were shipped in parts. The customer had to assemble the system himself, with help of the provided manual.
One of the features of Mr. Vane is the possibility of having an off center mast for the windvane. Because some users might require the mast on starboard and others may need it on port side, Mr. Vane can be assembled in a left version and a right version.
This also allows assembling the system partially left and partially right. If this happens, the system will correct the course the wrong way, ie, making it worse.
This could easily be corrected but the customer would need to know that this could be happening.
Unfortunately, not all customers turn to the manuals or the Mister Vee website to find out what is going wrong but what really pains me is that some do not contact me with their troubles.
And that is what happened with the 2008 participant who did not start. I could not help him getting his system to work because I did not know he had a problem. I found out much later through some internet forum.
With any new product, there will be stuff going wrong. When I discovered that the system could lock up, it drove me mad as it took me quite some time to figure out what was going on.
It was something I wish no user would have had to experience, especially the users on a long trip like the Jester and I am really sorry for the hassle this has caused them.
The last I would like to address are "The Plastic Gears"
Indeed, the gears are plastic.
In my systems the gears only transfer movement. Because they do not transfer force, they do not need to be "strong".
I did a study on the cost involved in adding stainless gears.
Because of the high cost of the gears and the extra work involved in manufacturing, stainless gears would require a price increase of something like eu 150.00 to eu 200.00 to the price of a system.
I do not think that stainless gears improve the product enough to warrant a 10% price increase.
If I remember correctly there were 3 participants in the 2008 Jester that had a 2007 model Mr. Vane self steering system fitted (Mr. Vane is the model, Mister Vee is the brand name).
A fourth with I think an xprmntl version did not start because he could not get his system working.
The first years the systems were shipped in parts to be self assembled by the customer.
All 2007 models of Mr. Vane had a design flaw that I myself had only discovered in 2008.
In short, the transmission geometry within the system allowed a movement that made the system lock up with the windvane swung out to the maximum position.
The windvane would at some point want to return to neutral but could not do so because it was locked, at which point it would put a very big sideways strain on the pushrod, eventually breaking the connecting bearing at the top of the pushrod .
One of the owners in the Jester fixed the broken bearing with another part that came with the system.
However, this part made the pushrod heavier, which would need to be compensated for by changing the counter weight inside the windvane.
If this counter weight is not equal to the weight of the pushrod, the system can never be in a dynamically stable setup an can not keep a stable course continuously.
This is true for all counter balanced windvane systems but because of the low overall weight of the Mister Vee parts, changing the counter weight is imperative when the weight of the pushrod is changed.
After finding out the trouble with the locking windvane I made some modifications and offered the parts for this free of charge.
But because of poor email management in the early days I was unable to reach out to all of the customers to offer the upgrade parts. I am afraid that user CPD is one of the customers I could not reach. I have tried contacting him because of this thread.
Before the 2007 version of Mr. Vane (which is still being sold today) there was the xprmntl version. This was sold at a rock bottom price to get feedback on the design and practicality.
There was a particular problem with the release mechanism of the pendulum rudder, it released way too quickly. As soon as I discovered this I developed a new way to connect the pendulum rudder and made that available to all customers free of charge. This mechanism is still in use in all systems, unchanged.
Until 2012 all systems were shipped in parts. The customer had to assemble the system himself, with help of the provided manual.
One of the features of Mr. Vane is the possibility of having an off center mast for the windvane. Because some users might require the mast on starboard and others may need it on port side, Mr. Vane can be assembled in a left version and a right version.
This also allows assembling the system partially left and partially right. If this happens, the system will correct the course the wrong way, ie, making it worse.
This could easily be corrected but the customer would need to know that this could be happening.
Unfortunately, not all customers turn to the manuals or the Mister Vee website to find out what is going wrong but what really pains me is that some do not contact me with their troubles.
And that is what happened with the 2008 participant who did not start. I could not help him getting his system to work because I did not know he had a problem. I found out much later through some internet forum.
With any new product, there will be stuff going wrong. When I discovered that the system could lock up, it drove me mad as it took me quite some time to figure out what was going on.
It was something I wish no user would have had to experience, especially the users on a long trip like the Jester and I am really sorry for the hassle this has caused them.
The last I would like to address are "The Plastic Gears"
Indeed, the gears are plastic.
In my systems the gears only transfer movement. Because they do not transfer force, they do not need to be "strong".
I did a study on the cost involved in adding stainless gears.
Because of the high cost of the gears and the extra work involved in manufacturing, stainless gears would require a price increase of something like eu 150.00 to eu 200.00 to the price of a system.
I do not think that stainless gears improve the product enough to warrant a 10% price increase.
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