Moving to/from the dark side - yacht size

[Greg2]

Depending upon your perspective we are (again) considering a move to/from the dark side

We sold our Broom 41 last year and have been considering options for a while. Our thoughts have turned to sailing as we have previously enjoyed charters abroad and I have sailed on and off since I was a lad. I have YM (Offshore) for power and ICC for sail and power up to 24m.

Thoughts are to maybe buy used in the UK with a view to mooring reasonably locally and building experience through regular day sails and cruises. We tend to boat most weekends and holidays so whilst we are reasonably competent (ish) this would provide the opportunity to become more experienced as well as providing time to do whatever needs to be done to the boat before a possible move to the Med.

I am not small (6’5”) and we have got used to a reasonable sized boat and would like the ability to host friends and family in the future so we are thinking something in the 40+ foot size. Maybe a Jeanneau 43 deck saloon - we previously considered one and like them and being mobo types the ability to see out is reassuring

Now my thoughts are that we should be able to handle this size of yacht with just myself and my wife. Am I right?

Would also welcome any thoughts, comments, suggestions etc on our possible plan.

Cheers

 

[Bobc]

We have a Bavaria 49 and have no problems with just me and SWMBO. Lots of headroom too!

 

[Uricanejack]

I was a motor boat guy to start with. I didn't take up sailing until later in life.
Not sure what a broom 41 is.
You already have the general seamanship and navigational knowledge required.

Generally sailboats are much smaller for the same length. Single screw, But they have big rudders so steer very well. The modern fin keel steers very easily even going astern. So with a little bit of practice. You and your wife should have no problem handling a similar length modern sail boat.
My son is 6'6" finding a boat with a suitable bunk & with sufficient head room outside my budget. Though he can stretch out in the fore cabin.
A Juneau 43 DS sounds lovely. If its close to home so you can use it regularly what could be better.

One thing I do find, Sailing, I am much more out in the weather. It is an aspect of sailing I enjoy. Even so I am contemplating a spray hood and cockpit cover.

Good luck with your plan I am sure you will enjoy it.

 

[lpdsn]

You should be fine once you get used to the handling characteristics. I know I'd be very wary of handling a similar sized MoBo to my own boat. If you can live with the small reduction in sailing performance a bow thruster would make your life easier.

You probably already know that the secret of handling a 40-odd foot boat is not to put yourself or anyone else in the position of having to heave on a warp, just get it on a cleat and use the engine and rudder to do the hard work.

 

[Tranona]

This is a subject that gets aired regularly here and obviously people have differing opinions. However you will find that many couples are quite happy handling boats in the 40-50' range. What makes this work is that modern boats (in particular) like the jeanneau are relatively easy to sail and builders have made a lot of effort in this area, primarily because their main and growing market is for that demographic.

The two barriers if you like to call them that are parking the boat and handling the sails, particularly in stronger winds.In general the boats steer well at low speeds, but you can't ignore the wind effects and the sheer size. A bow thruster is a great help here and you will find most boats of that size ar fitted with one. a fair number will have in mast furling which eases the handling of the mainsail and powerful winches, sometimes electric for handling the foresail.

Might be worth talking to Scala who posts here and has just taken delivery of a Bavaria Vision 42 which is a very similar boat to the Jeanneau. In his search for his boat he prompted a number of threads on here asking the same sorts of questions as will go through your mind.

 

[TQA]

I am 70 and single hand a 44 ft cutter much of the time.

Cruising Trinidad to the Virgin islands.

 

[Greg2]

Thanks for the helpful replies so far.

Uricanejack - a Broom 41 is a twin screw aft cabin motor cruiser with a planing hull. Cruising at 17/18 knots or, as we sometimes did, 7/8 knots running with the ride to enjoy the trip and burn less fuel! It had a lot of windage but is heavily built and with twin screws a dream to handle in close quarters. A yacht will be a whole different proposition, both in handling and accommodation.

Interesting points about handling the sails - we had some ‘learning experiences’ on this when chartering!

Tranona -you mention electric winches for handling the foresail. We have seen a couple of boats with one electric winch and I assumed it would be used for the main sheet but I guess thinking about it the blocks on the main make it easier whereas the foresail is typically a straight run to the sail. So the electric one is typically used for the foresail?

Good tip on a bowthruster - we had one on the Broom and it was handy as opposed to essential on a twin screw Boat but I can see the difference it would make on a yacht.

Good to to hear examples of people cruising larger boats as a couple or single handed - like the sound of Trinidad to the Virgin Islands! We chartered a yacht in the BVI for our 25th and had a ball - loved it albeit hurricane Sandy had an impact on the winds - it went north so we didn’t get hit but the usual steady trade winds were a bit all over the place.

A further question - is there a significant trade off between a shoal keep and sailing performance? Reason I ask is that we are east coast and like to visit some depth restricted places.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

...
Might be worth talking to Scala who posts here and has just taken delivery of a Bavaria Vision 42 which is a very similar boat to the Jeanneau. In his search for his boat he prompted a number of threads on here asking the same sorts of questions as will go through your mind.

Indeed.

To answer the OP's question, my wife (a beginner) and I (some experience) can sail and manoeuvre our 42'er easily. We have spent a bit of our budget on options to make this easier, specifically bow thruster, electric winches, in-mast furling and extra winches for the jib so it doesn't share its winch with the mainsheet. A self tacking jib is also available to reduce the "work" still further.

Headroom-wise, we have over 7' in the saloon. It's very spacious below which I appreciate won't appeal to all but was exactly what we wanted. The current Jeanneau DS range was also on our list by the way.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

.... We have seen a couple of boats with one electric winch and I assumed it would be used for the main sheet but I guess thinking about it the blocks on the main make it easier whereas the foresail is typically a straight run to the sail. So the electric one is typically used for the foresail?

If there's only one, that would be for hoisting the main. (unless it was a Dehler CWS). You always need two for jib/genoa sheets unless it's a self tacker.

... further question - is there a significant trade off between a shoal keep and sailing performance? Reason I ask is that we are east coast and like to visit some depth restricted places.

We have the shoal (wing) keel for the same reason. Boat tracks happily at 33-35 degrees off apparent, and tacks through 90 degrees. That's good enough for us. If you want racing performance then probably not.

 

[rotrax]

Our new-to us- boat has one Lewmar electric winch which is situated to handle ALL tasks except the vang. It has a self tacking jib using a Hoyt boom system.

Two retirees manage OK-over 2600 NM in the last two years!

It has ample headroom and seeing out is no problem. In fact, compared to all the other yachts we have used or owned, it is by far the best in this respect.

Does not sail too well, but that was in the "nice to have" column, not the "must have" one.

It is an Island Packet SP Cruiser.

Wont suit everyone, but might be worth a look.

Only draws 1,1 Metres.

There was one for sale on the East Coast-we looked at it but it was just out of reach financially.

 

[Neeves]

Maybe you might consider a sail catamaran.

Twin engines, decent accomodation, living above sea level, stunning performance on a reach. Downside, costs more per foot of length (than a yacht), marina costs might be horrendous.

If this appeals - I'm sure lots would contribute pros and cons - but sail does not mean one hull!

Jonathan

 

[Tranona]

Thanks for the helpful replies so far.

A further question - is there a significant trade off between a shoal keep and sailing performance? Reason I ask is that we are east coast and like to visit some depth restricted places.

It varies from boat to boat. I have had two shoal draft keeled boats. The first a Bav 37 from 2001 was very shallow at 1.4m compared with the 2.1m standard. Specifically bought with a view to going through the French canals. Perfectly adequate for normal cruising, but the combination of that, a poor inmast mainsail, extra tophamper from sprayhood and bimini meant it was not great in heavier weather. The newer 33 that I have is a bit deeper at 1.5m and has a better shaped keel with ballast lower down. Subjectively it performs well, and better than the older boat. I sail in Poole and the shallower draft does allow better access to the less frequented parts, plus I think it will dry out better against a wall.

With the size and type of boat you are looking at the performance will be more than adequate for easy cruising, and doubt you will ever get near its potential. So the options such as inmast, bow thrusters, shallow draft etc that improve ease of handling and usability that do have some effect on ultimate performance are a good tradeoff.

 

[Bobc]

A further question - is there a significant trade off between a shoal keep and sailing performance? Reason I ask is that we are east coast and like to visit some depth restricted places.

Shoal draft is fine, but over 40ft, there aren't many. Most boats that size will draw 2m.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Mine's 42' and draws 1.6m.

 

[TQA]

If you plan on using marinas a bow thruster makes life a LOT easier.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Indeed. Good to have centre cleats. Makes handling the lines when parking much less stressful. Once you have a line to a centre cleat it's usually feasible to keep the boat alongside using a judicious bit of engine and rudder.

 

[Frogmogman]

Maybe you might consider a sail catamaran.

Twin engines, decent accomodation, living above sea level, stunning performance on a reach. Downside, costs more per foot of length (than a yacht), marina costs might be horrendous.

If this appeals - I'm sure lots would contribute pros and cons - but sail does not mean one hull!

Jonathan

That was my initial reaction to the original post.

 

[RupertW]

That was my initial reaction to the original post.

Me too, and it won't heel and it will roll a lot less than a mono. That's the way I would go now if I could afford it.

 

[Greg2]

Some more helpful stuff thanks

Island Packet SP cruiser always interested me but may be beyond the budget. Current Jeanneau DS may be an option but prefer the build quality and style of the older boats.

Shoal keel definitely a preference I think. Had a very helpful chat with John Rodriguez (broker) today and he has crossed the Atlantic in one! Did his homework first though and he advises that it depends on the boat, which seems to accord with what Tranona says about his two shallower draft boats.

Mid-cleats - totally agree. Very helpful on a Mobo too.

Bowthruster a definite I think and inmast furling probably a preference. Did have some concerns about reliability and what you do if it jams out in a blow but chatting to a rigging guy at LIBS he advised that they are very reliable and rarely fail - cue a tale where one did....

Not sure about cats - recognise the benefits but marina fees would be an issue.

Thanks again.

 

[jonic]

Hi Greg2

Good to talk with you today (John Rodriguez).

You may like to know we also did 25,000 miles with inmast furling

No issues. Only occasional jam getting out as sail had creased going in. Very easily rectified by a quick turn back and forth on the winch at the mast.