Moving to France from the UK

[Keen4Moore]

So I have tried to look this up but can’t find find my scenario to see what would apply.

So firstly we have owned our powerboat for over a year and this is probably next summer we would look to ,move it anyway. Maybe later it all depends.

It was bought second hand from a broker and was originally bought in the UK all VAT paid etc. Value now circa £85k

The original plan was we went bigger to us it more in the UK Vs old boat we could trailer to France. But seeing as the British summer didn’t really turn up we ended up back down the South of France but boat less! At the mercy of hiring one locally which stung for just a few days.

So new plan, take the boat down the South of France (logistics TBC as that’s another conundrum) and then if we can find somewhere to keep it (yes I’m aware that’s hard work) leave it here and just get down here when we want to go boating.

Currently UK based but also looking at a move to France so would get citizenship etc at that point.

My query is around the French taxes. Does anyone know if anything would be liable? I see all the information about losing VAT paid if out of UK for 18 months, not too worried about that as I can’t see us bringing it back and sale wise… well that’s probably a long way off.

Everything I have seen is around people seeing things in the UK they want to buy and bring to France or vice versa. Not things they’ve already owned for some time and want to move and then leave there.

Hopefully someone has an idea on this

Thanks

 

[madabouttheboat]

Someone more knowledgeable will be along shortly, but if you permanently move your boat to France you will almost certainly have to pay import duties, VAT etc on it, unless you take the boat out of the EU at least once every 18 months. This can just be overnight, I understand.

The answer I think you might get on here is that it is easier to sell your boat in the UK and buy another that is already in the EU.

 

[Keen4Moore]

Someone more knowledgeable will be along shortly, but if you permanently move your boat to France you will almost certainly have to pay import duties, VAT etc on it, unless you take the boat out of the EU at least once every 18 months. This can just be overnight, I understand.

The answer I think you might get on here is that it is easier to sell your boat in the UK and buy another that is already in the EU.

That’s what I was leaning towards, 18 months sounds a long time but it’s also a long at down there by boat lol

What a pain!

 

[westernman]

If you move to France to become a permanent residence, you should be able to take your boat, car and other belongings with you without having pay any import taxes or VAT.

You will have to register your car in France so you will have to pay a one off cost for the "carte grise" (the same is true if you buy a new or second hand car). If your boat and car have the CE mark (which would normally be the case), then there should be no issues for either. You should not have to get any kind of certification for either.
You will have to pay the yearly French Flag charge (if you register the boat in France - not essential) or the French Passeport charge (which is exactly the same amount) if you choose to keep it on some other flag (e.g. UK).

A friend of mine moved to France from the USA with his Corvette he bought new in the USA. This did not have the CE mark. He had to take "reasonable" steps to comply with EU regulations.
He added a fog light. He did not have to even change the headlights. (USA and EU headlights for the a Corvette are very different and they are expensive). He got it through the certification process with no issues and no further work required. This depends to some extend on whether the guy doing the certification is in a bad mood or not. So be polite!

If you try to do this before you move to France to become resident, you will have to pay VAT and possibly have to bring the boat up to the current RCD II/2013 regulations if your boat is older than that. If you do it after you have moved, the worst case scenario is make a "reasonable effort" to bring it into line with the current regs but I think even that is not required. In any case it certainly does not involve changing the engine.

 

[Keen4Moore]

If you move to France to become a permanent residence, you should be able to take your boat, car and other belongings with you without having pay any import taxes or VAT.

You will have to register your car in France so you will have to pay a one off cost for the "carte grise" (the same is true if you buy a new or second hand car). If your boat and car have the CE mark (which would normally be the case), then there should be no issues for either. You should not have to get any kind of certification for either.
You will have to pay the yearly French Flag charge (if you register the boat in France - not essential) or the French Passeport charge (which is exactly the same amount) if you choose to keep it on some other flag (e.g. UK).

A friend of mine moved to France from the USA with his Corvette he bought new in the USA. This did not have the CE mark. He had to take "reasonable" steps to comply with EU regulations.
He added a fog light. He did not have to even change the headlights. (USA and EU headlights for the a Corvette are very different and they are expensive). He got it through the certification process with no issues and no further work required. This depends to some extend on whether the guy doing the certification is in a bad mood or not. So be polite!

If you try to do this before you move to France to become resident, you will have to pay VAT and possibly have to bring the boat up to the current RCD II/2013 regulations if your boat is older than that. If you do it after you have moved, the worst case scenario is make a "reasonable effort" to bring it into line with the current regs but I think even that is not required. In any case it certainly does not involve changing the engine.

Ah ok that’s interesting. Might make sense to alter the timings a bit then, thanks for the input

 

[DavidJ]

Just checking
Do the French have to pay a wealth tax on assets like boats?

 

[Keen4Moore]

Just checking
Do the French have to pay a wealth tax on assets like boats?

Hadn’t thought of that but a quick google says it not included, so small mercies lol

 

[westernman]

Just checking
Do the French have to pay a wealth tax on assets like boats?

No. Only on property.

For the moment........

But there is an annual tax on boats. French registered or not. Kept in France or not. The tax is payable by all french residents who have a boat anywhere on the planet. French registered or not.

Calculation of the annual fee for francization and navigation (FFN)

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Is there not an annual tax based on the CV ( ie horsepower) of the boat engines for FR registered boats?

EDIT Clarified thanks to westernman. “Applies to all boats owned by French residents Irrespective as to whether the boat is French registered or not, and whether it is kept in France or not. Or has ever been in France or not. Or whether the owner is French or not.”

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Another factor to consider is whether the boat you have is actually suitable for Med use. Boats designed for cold wet Northern Europe don’t make good Med boats. If it’s not suitable you can save a load of hassle by selling it here and buying an EU VAT paid boat in France, Italy or Spain.

 

[westernman]

Is there not an annual tax based on the CV ( ie horsepower) of the boat engines for FR registered boats?

Yes. On all boats owned by French residents.
Irrespective as to whether the boat is French registered or not, and whether it is kept in France or not. Or has ever been in France or not. Or whether the owner is French or not.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Yes. On all boats owned by French residents.
Irrespective as to whether the boat is French registered or not, and whether it is kept in France or not. Or has ever been in France or not. Or whether the owner is French or not.

Ah right thanks for the clarification. So the OP will be liable once he’s become a resident.

 

[madabouttheboat]

But there is an annual tax on boats. French registered or not. Kept in France or not. The tax is payable by all french residents who have a boat anywhere on the planet. French registered or not.

Calculation of the annual fee for francization and navigation (FFN)

That can't be right, surely. Annual tax on my circa £50K 29ft sportscruiser is over E38,000 per year

 

[Sticky Fingers]

The administrative power isn’t the actual HP. There’s a formula to calculate based on no of cylinders, bore and stroke IIRC

 

[Sticky Fingers]

The administrative power isn’t the actual HP. There’s a formula to calculate based on no of cylinders, bore and stroke IIRC

Found this, a bit pigeon English but hopefully you will get the idea:

In France, for a boat engine, whether it is a sailboat or a motor boat, the tax calculation method takes into account several parameters: number of cylinders (represented by n), bores in millimeters (a), and stroke in millimeters (c).

The bore is the internal diameter of the piston. The stroke is the piston's travel distance inside the cylinder. They are multiplied by a different constant depending on the engine fuel (diesel or petrol):

fiscal power of a diesel engine = (315 x n x a^2 x c) / 100,000
fiscal power of a petrol engine = (45 x n x a^2 x c) / 10,000

 

[westernman]

Found this, a bit pigeon English but hopefully you will get the idea:

In France, for a boat engine, whether it is a sailboat or a motor boat, the tax calculation method takes into account several parameters: number of cylinders (represented by n), bores in millimeters (a), and stroke in millimeters (c).

The bore is the internal diameter of the piston. The stroke is the piston's travel distance inside the cylinder. They are multiplied by a different constant depending on the engine fuel (diesel or petrol):

fiscal power of a diesel engine = (315 x n x a^2 x c) / 100,000
fiscal power of a petrol engine = (45 x n x a^2 x c) / 10,000

For a diesel engine the fiscal power is almost exactly 4 times the cubic capacity in litres. For boats.

For cars they have changed over to use a formula based on CO2 emissions - it used to be the same system.
So my old Golf TDI 110HP 1.9 litre diesel from 1998 using the old system was 7CV.

The 315 is actually 100 x pi approximated so the poor tax officials can work it out more easily with pencil and paper.
And of course rounded up as everything to do with tax always is.

A 300 HP Volvo is 3.7 litres. So probably 15 CV.
Try using that in the equation instead of 300 CV!
The result will be less of a shock.

 

[billskip]

The bore is the internal diameter of the piston

?

 

[Keen4Moore]

That can't be right, surely. Annual tax on my circa £50K 29ft sportscruiser is over E38,000 per year

View attachment 182859

I’ve not looked into it massively but 22 is 200hp according to one site. So for my 8.3m with a single engine it’s going to be 800 or 900 euro per year.

But then I also see you can maybe stay UK registered despite being now “French” owned.

Oh good… another thing to add to the research list lol

 

[Keen4Moore]

Another factor to consider is whether the boat you have is actually suitable for Med use. Boats designed for cold wet Northern Europe don’t make good Med boats. If it’s not suitable you can save a load of hassle by selling it here and buying an EU VAT paid boat in France, Italy or Spain.

It’s an open back hard top with a sun roof. I’ve had a few different boats we have taken down here and while the Costa del Eastbourne only has the odd day that compares with an average day here I can see it would be pretty good.

I’ve had a RIB on hire which always looks the part with big sun pads etc. but nowhere to sleep for starters and a bit wet when the wind got up.

Fortunately the boat was a bit of a bargain, so will probably stack up against a swap. But that’s why I am asking the questions to be able to math it all out properly

Ah what fun! Then something will obviously break to add to the enjoyment of boating lol

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Ok. Might want to add air on if you plan to sleep on it in summer but otherwise sounds promising