Moving from mobo to pilothouse yacht

[Flying Penguin]

Don't mean to be a downer, but it seems to me like you are going to be motoring when the winds are light because it's a big heavy brute of a boat, and motoring (from the internal helm) when it's a bit blowy because you're not too fussed about the sailing bit and don't want to have to work too hard with the sails or get wet, leaving not much opportunity for sailing (F5 in a constant direction, flat sea, open water so no course changes etc).

Judging by your profile pic (your boat I assume?), perhaps you are better off considering a simple displacement mobo? I can't imagine that a motor sailer with engine on will be that much different to a displacement mobo at or near hull speed and you won't have to deal with the compromises that having a mast and sailing gear would bring (deck space, motion under motor alone etc).

Every boat is a compromise, but to my mind it doesn't seem to me that a motorsailer is going to fit your needs.

 

[Arcady]

Paul,

Turn your eyes accross the Pond and scour the market for a Cabo Rico Northeast 400. It ticks all the boxes you've mentioned and is beautifully built . There are a few here: http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/category/type/Cabo+Rico/Ne+400

 

[LadyInBed]

Just looked at a Countess, http://www.theyachtmarket.com/boatimages.aspx?boatID=92378&inum=9&searchid=&page=

Nice looking boat, but a bit more "down below" than i'm hoping for.

Ah but that one isn't the Pilothouse version as mine is, and it has a decent aft cabin with on-suite heads

 

[Twister_Ken]

The red-top fenders show admirable attention to detail.

 

[Bodach na mara]

I think Flying Penguin (post #21) makes some good points. Sailing is easy once you know how but is best learned in a smaller boat than a 40 footer, in fact it is best in a heavy stable dinghy such as Y W Dayboat. And your budget will not stretch to some of the classes mentioned. I know that there is a recession just now and boat sales are slow, but Vancouver 38s up here are priced in the £80k plus region and I doubt they will come down as far as £60k.

As for engine power, remember you are talking about boats limited to displacement speeds. A typical 30ish foot motor sailor (about 25 foot waterline length) will not never no-how exceed 8 knots under power. It will however reach 6 knots with very low power (by motor boat standards) as they have relatively easily driven hulls. Thus the 30 hp of the Moody 33 is quite normal for this size of boat. They can cruise at a steady 7 knots in good conditions with power in reserve to keep doing that speen against a headwind in calm seas. In rough seas you really don't want to maintain full speed anyway. A larger boat will give you more room aboard obviously but will not go that much faster. For a 36 foot waterline (which implies a boat of 40 plus feet overall) your cruising speed rises to only 8.5 knots typically and your engine power would probably be aroung 50 hp. Fuel consumption will be about 2.5 litres per hour for the Moody and about twice that for the larger boat.

 

[Ludd]

Rasmus 35/NAB 35.

JOB SORTED!

 

[jonic]

Ah ha. What you need is...

A Moody 45 DS

I want one of those.

 

[LadyInBed]

Moody 45 DS - I want one of those.

I would have to stand on tipitoes to see where I'm going!
(Not that I look that often)

 

[Whitty]

salar 40, sails well, two on yachtworld.

 

[dk]

Westerly Konsort Duo?

 

[AliM]

You can have a deck saloon yacht that sails as well or better than similar-sized cruising yachts, and you can sail from inside, motors well, no "cave" etc etc, and even have a shallow draft for the East Coast and fishing expeditions. Paul, if you'd like a look round ours (which is a lot smaller than you have said), then PM me. [Downside is cost and availability]

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Paul - your post confirms what you said at the beginning about your knowledge of sailboats. Fine, we all start from zero but your problem is that you dont know what you are looking at and listening to others is likely either to give you bad advice or confuse you. Ideally you need to pick up some knowledge - do some sailing courses and maybe join a yacht club before putting your hand in your pocket. Why sailing courses? Because you need to have a good sailing boat that you enjoy sailing - using a sailing boat as a mobo will only frustrate you because it will be a far worse mobo than the one you sold.

Fishing is also an issue if you do it seriously. Sailing boats have rigging all over the place which makes casting difficult / impractical. Some are better than others but again a sailboat is not as good as a mobo.

I get the feeling that you are going away from a mobo because of diesel costs rather than because you want to sail. Understandable but likely to lead to real frustration. And I say this as a confirmed sailor who welcomes everyone coming over from the dark side.

 

[cliffdale]

Just in case you have not looked back in the mobo section, I posted this link.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265708

 

[PaulGooch]

Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions so far, was up until silly-o-clock looking at them all. Will reply in more detail later, work sadly beckons.

Oh, the Jeanneau Espace 1000/110, what's the difference between the two models and do they all have drop keels ?

 

[aquaplane]

Oh, the Jeanneau Espace 1000/110, what's the difference between the two models and do they all have drop keels ?

Mum's 1000 is a fin keel. I think the options were fin or swing, no twin but I could be wrong on the twin bit.

It has a tiller and hydraulic wheel inside. The auto pilot works when the hydraulics are engaged. The autopilot is inside with a repeater in the cockpit. A wheel outside was an option.

The 1100 has the same layout from the companionway forwards as far as I know. It also has a sugar scoop transom and the hanging locker to the stbd of hatch the goes to form the access to the aft cabin. The one on Apollo Duck has a higher cill from the cockpit to the saloon too, Mum's 1000 only has 2 steps where that 1100 looks to have 4.

 

[chinita]

As an aside, I used to own a Westerly Konsort Duo.

At one stage I sent my mate to take the inside helm as I pretended to be doing something in the cockpit; I then switched the control lever to tiller steering.

Could hardly contain myself as my mate was steering hard to port as I asked him to do; I nudged the tiller hard to starboard and then hard to port as he desperately tried spinning the lifeless and redundant wheel anyway he could - desperately trying to regain some sort of control.

Great fun.

 

[Rob_Webb]

Don't want to be getting unduly involved in the finer points of squeezing the last .0001 knot out of the sails, was kind of thinking of doing as little as possible and being happy to be blown along at some sort of respectable speed, type of thing.

I would echo seajet's warning to ensure you don't end up with a boat that neither sails properly nor motors as well as you are used to. I knew a couple of people with the older style motor sailors you are referring to (Colvic types) and even in a decent breeze they needed to keep the engine ticking over to tack for example, just to give the rudder sufficient kick. That's not proper sailing by any definition. So if you go down this route you absolutely MUST do a serious sea trial in the kind of conditions that you expect you would typically sail in, which might means waiting for a suitable weather windown rather than scheduling a fixed time.

If you can stretch to a newer (but therefore probably more expensive hence smaller) machine you will get better all round performance. The older generation motor-sailors were rarely a true 50:50 blend, they were more one than the other (usually more motor and poor sailors due to their design) but the newer generation designs have achieved a much better blend and can both sail well and motor home at a good clip if required. But more cash obviously.

 

[SpottyDog5]

Paul, you already have the boat I most regret selling, have one again in a heartbeat...

 

[Rob_Webb]

Don't mean to be a downer, but it seems to me like you are going to be motoring when the winds are light because it's a big heavy brute of a boat, and motoring (from the internal helm) when it's a bit blowy because you're not too fussed about the sailing bit and don't want to have to work too hard with the sails or get wet, leaving not much opportunity for sailing (F5 in a constant direction, flat sea, open water so no course changes etc).

Judging by your profile pic (your boat I assume?), perhaps you are better off considering a simple displacement mobo? I can't imagine that a motor sailer with engine on will be that much different to a displacement mobo at or near hull speed and you won't have to deal with the compromises that having a mast and sailing gear would bring (deck space, motion under motor alone etc).

Every boat is a compromise, but to my mind it doesn't seem to me that a motorsailer is going to fit your needs.

My thinking exactly (from the limited info I've gleaned from your posts to date).

 

[Sybarite]

I chartered an Espace 1000 and really did not like it. It needed a gale of wind to get it going and to helm outside and see where you are going you have to stand. The inside steering position didn't provide any feel.

Other than that it was a comfortable boat.