Moving from 70 to 100 foot.

[JoeCruiser]

Wondering if someone can advise me.
I have previously owned a Manhattan 66.
I fancy trying something bigger for a few years.

I have a partner willing to go half’s on a 2006 100 foot yacht.
Purchase cost less then £1 Million.
I assume depreciation will be less then a newish 70 foot flybridge.

How mad will the operating costs be vs my 66?

Boat is semi displacement, drinks 130 LPH. Fuel is cheaper then my 66 was. In 2016 she had a full repaint and engine overhaul.

I would have 2 Full time crew. Greece/Italy based.

What are the major pitfalls of a large older boat vs any other out of 70 foot modern yacht with many of the same gizmos?

How will going over the 24m load line affect me?

Are my estimates for the below expenses correct?

Vessel Insurance £10,000
2 Crew. £70,000
Annual Maintenance £25,000
Berth £40,000
Shipyard £10,000

Would £200,000 per annum be realistic basic operating costs?
(Based on 2 permanent crew)

This 200k does not include food, 3 additional crew, fuel and away from home mooring fees when someone is on board.

Happy for someone to tell me I am making a mistake and am in for a way bigger hole then I am
expecting and I will rethink.

 

[PilotWolf]

I’d double the crew costs If one is a skipper...

10 years ago I was on £180 a day on a work boat. 180 x 365 = 65700 alone - for a white boat I’d expect more per day. And expenses were also paid in addition to that, plus things like laundry and food were also included.

Are you talking sailing or motor yacht?

If motor take fuel from a tanker not the marina - that alone will save you £££

W.

 

[Eren]

Berth can be found cheaper especially in Greece, whereas shipyard costs would be slightly higher. I sgree with PilotWolf about the captain’s cost. But all in all GBP 200k will be enough. No mistakes there.

 

[dokeg22209]

130 LPH fuel consumption for a 2006 100 footer will be per engine I guess?
With 2 owners - do you need a full time crew all year around? The per-day rates above OK for freelancers, if you hire them 200 days per annum at £ 400/day for a skipper + a deckhand/stew that is a decent salary in IT/GR
£ 25k a year maintenance for a 35m yacht will be the lower limit

 

[JoeCruiser]

Thanks for the responses.
I would have thought £45,000 a year is a fairly decent annual wage for a skipper. Free lodging & food too.

Its a motor yacht.
130 LPH is for both engines at 13 knot cruise speed.

The boat has had the same two crew from new. It’s on its second owner who kept the original crew. I don’t fancy getting a part time captain. Happy to pay a little more and have the peace of mind.

It’s 31 Meters. What makes you say scheduled annual maintenance will exceed £25,000?

 

[MapisM]

You are asking as if non-scheduled maintenance weren't important.
I'll hazard a guess, is the boat you are considering built in resin encapsulated wooden planks, maybe?
If so, you'd better have mentioned it, because I have a funny feeling that it might affect the previous suggestions.
Mine would be very simple, for instance: over my dead body.

 

[dokeg22209]

If the crew has been on the boat since the beginning then just prolong their contracts to the same conditions?
As for the yearly costs - make a list of things that cost 25k or more on a 100ft boat: teak, both engine revisions, dingy, 2 seabobs , ...If you come to more than 6 items, then you can each replace them every 6 years. And that's without the unexpected maintenance...

 

[JoeCruiser]

@MapisM.
Non scheduled maintenance is difficult to estimate.
What is the main reason you would stay away from wood epoxy built boat? It’s a fairly well established boat building method. It’s not used much these days as we have moved onto GRP.
By all means let me know the pitfalls.

 

[MapisM]

Well, in a nutshell, it's probably the most unforgiving construction technique in boatbuilding,.
One whose problems can be extremely difficult to find also for a good surveyor, possibly surfacing out of the blue before you know.

Btw, there's another thing which is a bit fishy, just by looking at the ad.
The engines which they claim to be of the same vintage of the boat were phased out by MTU already three years before.
Doesn't necessarily mean that they weren't new when fitted to the boat, but you see what I mean.

PS: ref. non-scheduled maintenance, I agree, it can't be estimated (by definition).
But on a boat like that, it's safe to say that it's going to be high rather than low...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

An annual maintenance budget of £25k will go nowhere near covering the cost of keeping a 100 footer running because you'll be replacing and repairing stuff all the time. Put it like this. I budget £35k pa for my 2006 Ferretti 630 in the Med. I would double your budget to £50k pa and even that wont cover stuff like replacing a generator or nav gear. Of course if you or your crew are really handy with the tools, you may get the maintenance budget down. Does your crew budget include a skipper because £70k looks a bit light if it does

The rest of your budgeted costs look about right maybe even a bit too much for insurance

 

[PilotWolf]

Good crew are hard to find.

That’s why jobs especially in the super yacht world, for a good employers are hard to find. Happy and good crew don’t move on.

What you also have to remember a skipper although not on deck is effectively working 24/7 so when you divide the daily rate by 24 it becomes below minimum wage.

As I said 10 yrs ago I was getting £180 a day, the stew £90 and I can’t remember the deckhands. Plus free food, laundry, travel load, etc. It wasn’t the highest pay in the industry but a great company to work for and they took care of their staff even though we were freelance.

If you’re going to let someone ‘run’ your pride and joy you need to trust them 110% - if the crew have been there long term I’d suggest they’re good - keep them.

W.

 

[PilotWolf]

An annual maintenance budget of £25k will go nowhere near covering the cost of keeping a 100 footer running because you'll be replacing and repairing stuff all the time. Put it like this. I budget £35k pa for my 2006 Ferretti 630 in the Med. I would double your budget to £50k pa and even that wont cover stuff like replacing a generator or nav gear. Of course if you or your crew are really handy with the tools, you may get the maintenance budget down. Does your crew budget include a skipper because £70k looks a bit light if it does

The rest of your budgeted costs look about right maybe even a bit too much for insurance

My last year I worked here without my injury I earned nearly that and...

Home every night, no Maintainace, no worries about anything other than show up and drive the boat - albeit deal with passengers, etc.

The job of a live aboard full time skipper is much different - to be honest I missed the challenges.

W.

 

[stelican]

Well, in a nutshell, it's probably the most unforgiving construction technique in boatbuilding,.
One whose problems can be extremely difficult to find also for a good surveyor, possibly surfacing out of the blue before you know.

Btw, there's another thing which is a bit fishy, just by looking at the ad.
The engines which they claim to be of the same vintage of the boat were phased out by MTU already three years before.
Doesn't necessarily mean that they weren't new when fitted to the boat, but you see what I mean.

PS: ref. non-scheduled maintenance, I agree, it can't be estimated (by definition).
But on a boat like that, it's safe to say that it's going to be high rather than low...

MapisM
Where is the ad please

 

[MapisM]

Well, it would be unfair to disclose it if the OP doesn't want to, I reckon.
Though it only took me 3 minutes or so to find it, based on what he told us...

 

[Portofino]

Well, it would be unfair to disclose it if the OP doesn't want to, I reckon.
Though it only took me 3 minutes or so to find it, based on what he told us...

See what you mean
Perhaps ask to see the accounts from the seller as it seems to have been charted .So there will be records available.
The fuel flow seems a bit lean .....I reckon 140/160 Lhr each side @ 11/13 knots and over 240 each at full D speed quoted as 15 knots .

looks like it summers in Nice ( airport + charter ? ) and winters in San Remo .

You could base it in Liguria and instruct crew to bring it to the SoF as and when in the summer .

I have a feeling you could get one Italian young guy to live aboard full time and as many others as you need in the summer on a ad hoc basis , from Italy for a lot less than Cote d Azur money .

 

[jrudge]

You bigger issue I suspect is being bigger than 24m.

That means no self drive. Qualified skipper and crew. Minimum crew requirements. I assume Surveys etc to keep it in code.

Bear in mind the manufactures goto extraordinary lengths to keep below 24m ( even on 90ft boats) and that tells you something.

 

[jrudge]

And just find it also. Its a lot of boat for the money but a wooden hull ..... emm. To brave for me

 

[markc]

And just find it also. Its a lot of boat for the money but a wooden hull ..... emm. To brave for me

Snap, a lot of boat, and an unfeasibly large brave pill required.

5300 hours, so well chartered. Would you be continuing the charter business?

 

[dokeg22209]

Found the 2006 Mengi Jay too. Ad sounds a bit fishy. It's their only ad, the company doesn't have a website, and there doesn't seem to be a company registered under that name.
I would proceed with extreme caution. When it's too good to be true...

 

[MapisM]

When it's too good to be true...

Fwiw, I don't think there's anything that really sounds that good.
If you compare the asking price with the actual boat rather than just with her sheer size, all of a sudden it isn't particularly attractive anymore.
In fact, I'd also expect it to be pretty negotiable, if whoever bought the boat two years ago already wants to get rid of her.
I mean, did you look at the materials and components fitted?
Or at some of the finishing details that can be even seen from the pics?
Besides, no stabilizers on a 100' displacement boat built in 2006? Seriously?