Moving from 1,2,Both switch to VSR

halcyon said:
Out of interest why ? technical or just that it's to much trouble for some firms to make them.
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Paul was responding to my post 92, in which I said that "... a low-loss splitter can be a better choice than a VSR, especially when more than 2 battery circuits require charging in isolation." I think Paul simply made a mistake and said "more than one bank" instead of "more than two banks". Despite what some of the more vitriolic posters allege, he does actually know a lot more about boat electrical systems than most, and freely offers sound advice on these forums.
 
pvb said:
Paul was responding to my post 92, in which I said that "... a low-loss splitter can be a better choice than a VSR, especially when more than 2 battery circuits require charging in isolation." I think Paul simply made a mistake and said "more than one bank" instead of "more than two banks". Despite what some of the more vitriolic posters allege, he does actually know a lot more about boat electrical systems than most, and freely offers sound advice on these forums.
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You're right Pete, i did mean more than two banks.

Thanks for the kind words .
 
pvb said:
Paul was responding to my post 92, in which I said that "... a low-loss splitter can be a better choice than a VSR, especially when more than 2 battery circuits require charging in isolation." I think Paul simply made a mistake and said "more than one bank" instead of "more than two banks". Despite what some of the more vitriolic posters allege, he does actually know a lot more about boat electrical systems than most, and freely offers sound advice on these forums.
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One thing I like about the forum is that it gives a good source for peoples thoughts and problems, hense my question as to why.

I do know a little, see or see

Brian
 
I'm suggesting the "geem" comes from some sort of military background then......if not I stand corrected.

…. "you have had the same patronising treatment, your thick, you dont understand, you even refuse to understand, only 'sir' knows best, great here isnt it."
 
halcyon said:
One thing I like about the forum is that it gives a good source for peoples thoughts and problems, hense my question as to why.

I do know a little, see or see

Brian
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Never doubted you know "a little" Brian. I suspect it might a more than "a little"

Funny, isn't it, you spend decades designing and building things, major boat manufacturers buy your products and thousands of boats are happily pottering around with your kit keeping the batteries in order, then you get some random "expert" on an internet forum, tell you that you don't know what you're talking about.

I once saw a signature on another forum, it read ;

"Most internet forums contain enough "experts" to drown out the people with the real knowledge"

To answer your question, it's obviously technically possible to charge multiple banks from one or two charging sources, but it's not something that's widely available in the form of VSRs. I think that for mainstream use, at least, current solid state devices would make multi bank, multi engine, VSR systems impractical and uneconomic to make.

End of last season i re-wired a large, twin engined vessel, that had ;

Port engine battery
Stb engine battery
Large domestic bank
Generator battery
Bow thruster bank
Stern thruster bank

Charged by ;

Port alternator
Stb alternator
Generator
Mains charger
Large solar array

Plus an inverter. All banks had to remain separate, each charging source had to be able to charge all batteries, sometimes in conjunction with another source (both engines, one engine, one engine and solar, solar and mains etc). Every system had to be able to be individually isolated and every system had to have a backup.

Obviously not a job for a VSR ;)

Would be interested to hear our resident forum "experts" solutions, answers on a postcard...........
 
PaulRainbow said:
End of last season i re-wired a large, twin engined vessel, that had ;

Port engine battery
Stb engine battery
Large domestic bank
Generator battery
Bow thruster bank
Stern thruster bank

Charged by ;

Port alternator
Stb alternator
Generator
Mains charger
Large solar array

Plus an inverter. All banks had to remain separate, each charging source had to be able to charge all batteries, sometimes in conjunction with another source (both engines, one engine, one engine and solar, solar and mains etc). Every system had to be able to be individually isolated and every system had to have a backup.

Obviously not a job for a VSR ;)

Would be interested to hear our resident forum "experts" solutions, answers on a postcard...........
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Think we ae not far from doing that of the shelf, complete with integral volt and amp measurement, I've been doing it for to long now.

In 1985 we supplied Sealine with a two engine 3 battery bank system, charged service bank from both engines, rolled over to cover faulty alternator, charged engine batteries from multistage mains charger when service battery was fall, then charged all at float and supplied DC power, displayed the battery and charge status, would turn off some circuits if service battery was low to limit drain.

Look at a solid state system back in the 90's, could not come to terms with fail safe problem, if the unit failed you can loose all charge to engine batteries. With VSR I always maintain charge to engine battery / batteries, plus I have reverse charge option, also avoid a couple of other gremlins.

After dealing with Sealne, Westely, Sunseeker, Marne Projects, Fairline, Birchwood and many more production builders, the forum is easy going.

All the best

Brian
 
halcyon said:
Think we ae not far from doing that of the shelf, complete with integral volt and amp measurement, I've been doing it for to long now.

In 1985 we supplied Sealine with a two engine 3 battery bank system, charged service bank from both engines, rolled over to cover faulty alternator, charged engine batteries from multistage mains charger when service battery was fall, then charged all at float and supplied DC power, displayed the battery and charge status, would turn off some circuits if service battery was low to limit drain.

Look at a solid state system back in the 90's, could not come to terms with fail safe problem, if the unit failed you can loose all charge to engine batteries. With VSR I always maintain charge to engine battery / batteries, plus I have reverse charge option, also avoid a couple of other gremlins.

After dealing with Sealne, Westely, Sunseeker, Marne Projects, Fairline, Birchwood and many more production builders, the forum is easy going.

All the best

Brian
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Very impressive, as one would expect from a professional. Appreciate you take time to help and advise.
 
I recently replaced a 1-2-both switch with a VCR but between the batteries and the VCR put an isolating switch with double poles and a "both" position. It therefore has position1-Off Position 2- both batteries on but isolated from one another (the normal running position with VCR active) and 3-both batteries on and linked for emergency start. Best of both worlds I think. Such rotary switches are available from ASAP Supplies and others. They look similar to the 1-2-both switches and can be fitted in their place easily with VCR added.
 
Evening All,

Excuse me if this has already been answered or is obvious, but why is there a common negative battery switch on the Beneteau? Not found this before on other boats, and rather anxious about having an interruption to my boat's grounding circuits, or accidentally forgetting to turn it on and having a high current find its way to ground through an unintended route with the positive switches on. Can someone tell me why it is there? I am minded to remove it. I couldn't find an answer in Nigel Calder's excellent Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual.

Thanks, John.
 
Maybe because your boat has an isolated DC system .

You dont say what engine you have but perhaps a VP MD22 or engine pre B series MD2010 which does not have isolation between engine and sail drive.

If the negative switch is open there can be no current flow because there will be no path back to the battery negative so accidently leaving it open does not cause any problems apart from the fact that nothing will work
 
VicS said:
Maybe because your boat has an isolated DC system .

You dont say what engine you have but perhaps a VP MD22 or engine pre B series MD2010 which does not have isolation between engine and sail drive.

If the negative switch is open there can be no current flow because there will be no path back to the battery negative so accidently leaving it open does not cause any problems apart from the fact that nothing will work
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Nothing to do with isolated DC systems, Beneteau and Jeanneau have had negative isolators for decades.
 
Corbert-Beacon said:
Evening All,

Excuse me if this has already been answered or is obvious, but why is there a common negative battery switch on the Beneteau? Not found this before on other boats, and rather anxious about having an interruption to my boat's grounding circuits, or accidentally forgetting to turn it on and having a high current find its way to ground through an unintended route with the positive switches on. Can someone tell me why it is there? I am minded to remove it. I couldn't find an answer in Nigel Calder's excellent Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual.

Thanks, John.
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It's there simply because the builders fitted it, if you forget to turn it on, nothing will work.

If you don't like it, remove the cables going to it and bolt them together or fit them to a terminal post. Connect a cable from the switch to the load side of the engine isolator and another to the load side of the domestic isolator and you have an emergency parallel switch. I'd paint it yellow so it doesn't confuse anyone.
 
PaulRainbow said:
Nothing to do with isolated DC systems, Beneteau and Jeanneau have had negative isolators for decades.
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Why do VP show battery negative switches in the wiring diagrams for their engines with isolated DC systems such as the MD22 ?

Why do Beneteau and Jeanneau fit them anyway ?
 
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VicS said:
Why do VP show battery negative switches in the wiring diagrams for their engines with isolated DC systems such as the MD22 ?
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Ask VP. For your information, despite what you may have looked up on Google, not all MD22 installations have negative isolators fitted.

The question related to a Beneteau, they have negative isolators irrespective of the engine fitted or whether it's isolated negative, it's a standard fit. Same goes for Jeanneau.
 
PaulRainbow said:
Ask VP. For your information, despite what you may have looked up on Google, not all MD22 installations have negative isolators fitted.

The question related to a Beneteau, they have negative isolators irrespective of the engine fitted or whether it's isolated negative, it's a standard fit. Same goes for Jeanneau.
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Thanks both.

The boat is a 1996 Beneteau 381 with a replacement 2013 Volvo Penta D1-30F 3. Don’t think it matters what it is. It’s a donker in a box that makes the boat go forward and backwards. I have asked the Beneteau Owners why the negative switch. Let’s see what they say.

Regards, John.
 
Corbert-Beacon said:
Thanks both.

The boat is a 1996 Beneteau 381 with a replacement 2013 Volvo Penta D1-30F 3. Don’t think it matters what it is. It’s a donker in a box that makes the boat go forward and backwards. I have asked the Beneteau Owners why the negative switch. Let’s see what they say.

Regards, John.
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As i have already said, the engine does not matter and it is irrelevant whether it's isolated negative or not.

There is no special reason or requirement for the switch to be there, it's just something that Beneteau and Jeanneau do, it doesn't perform any extra, magical functions, it purely and simply isolates the negative.

All battery negatives must be linked together and connected to one terminal o f the switch, all negative loads must be connected to the other terminal of the switch. There must be no negative connections bypassing the switch, if there are, either wire them up correctly or remove the cables from the switch and connect them together permanently. You must not have permanently on circuits with a negative isolator switch.

In my opinion, it's better not to have it, i would re-wire it as an emergency parallel switch, as in described previously.
 
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