Motor cheaper than sail.. ?

Sybarite

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Laurent Bourgnon is currently taking his family around the world in a 70’ Sunreef motor catamaran because it is cheaper than sailing !
His reasoning is as follows :-

• About 50% of the costs of a large sailing catamaran are directly related to sailing : hull reinforcement, mast, rigging and sails; say, an additional 500,000 to 1,000,000 euros.

• Large sailing catamarans pass anyway about 50% of their time under motor.

• A catamaran hull requires much less power to drive at a faster speed than a monohull.

• His catamaran has expeditionary tanks (20 tonnes) which gives him a cruising range on both engines at 10 knots of over 10000 nm at 2 litres to a mile. On a single engine, it’s even further. This allows him to fill up in places like Libya or Venezuela where the fuel is dirt cheap.

• You can travel a direct route to where you are going. Eg you don’t need to go south to find the trade winds for an Atlantic crossing.

• Even if you count a litre at 1 euro, ie €20000 to fill up, he could travel between 250000 to 500000 nm (using the above assumptions) before absorbing the difference in the original purchase price.

• On 70’ sailing catamaran, with his young family, he would probably need additional crew members.

• A catamaran has a large surface area for solar panels and these together with wind generators and a 1200 amp battery bank means that he never needs to use a generator in port.

• He uses less fuel than in his Swiss home.

• He has recently bulbs to the bows to make the boat even more efficient.

As far as the thrill of sailing is concerned he says that he gets that from racing catamarans, not from cruising ones.

Some large motor catamarans also use auxiliary kite sails for downwind sailing.

I suppose this reasoning only holds good for the larger catamarans but it is interesting to look at the real costs involved in boating.
 

Kawasaki

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Very interesting stuff thanks for that.
50% under motor?
I don.t know owt about sailing and raggie stuff.
Is that because a cat is inneficient when the wind ain.t right?

From what I gather from raggies there are 3 types of wind.
1 Wrong direction.
2 Not enough
3 Too much

Tarra!
Off back to Mobo Forum /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 

Bandit

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In MBY this month there is an article about Wind Horse an aluminium blue water motor boat with stabilisers see:


http://dashewoffshore.com/pdfs/SS21_Dashew.pdf


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf0K0I00WMY

Personally i dont think the shallow water short wave pattern of the needles in the video does the design justice.

Steve dashew previously had is own design blue water sailing yachts built for him up to 80ft and has now built an 83ft motor boat for long distance cruising by him and his wife both in their old age.

His previous 80ft sailing yacht Beowulf see

http://dashewoffshore.com/

and

http://www.kellyarcher.co.nz/beowulf.html

He does a mere 37,000 miles over four years and he reckons Beowulf cost $3.90 per mile and Wind Horse $2.20 per mile.
 

ksutton

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Here we go again.

Most of us have sailing boats and sail them because they are relatively quiet, don't stink, smoke or vibrate, don't have the hassle and cost of maintaining big engines and they are much more climate friendly.

Oh yes and you can usually relax while on passage.
 

Adrianwool

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Shame to see the old emnities with power vs sail. Powerboats do not need to smoke, vibrate or 'stink', though what precisely the term 'stink' means in this context I am not sure, perhaps you are talking about the crew! Boating should be a broad church, not a place for narrow minded opinion (on either side of the fence).
 

Sgeir

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[ QUOTE ]
Boating should be a broad church

[/ QUOTE ]I do agree with you that there should be tolerance shown to our respective pursuits, but we're not a broad church and probably never will be.

Your use of the word "boating" demonstrates that the reality is different; most people on yachts would describe their hobby as "sailing" and not "boating". For yacht sailors, the first good moment of the day is when the engine is switched off and the the only noises are of the wind in the sails and the swish of water on the hull.

The fact is that we occupy the same geographic space and therefore need to get along with each other, but I see no point in pretending that "boating" and "sailing" are the same

As power boats become bigger, faster, and, in some cases noisier, they become further removed from the traditional slow displacement hull motor boats with which many yacht sailors still have an affinity.

Rather than convergence, marine leisure pursuits are diverging quite noticeably, and will continue to do so, imho.
 

Slow_boat

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I must admit to comparing boats to cars and drivers;

Jetski=motorbike (tattoos)
Ski boat=Hatchback with spoiler (trendy tattoos and brow stud)
Planing powerboat=Trendy 4x4 (big gold chain)
Bigger planing powerboat=Lexus (small gold chain and bracelet)
Even bigger planing powerboat=chauffer driven (manicured nails, grey hair, well cut suit)

/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

Adrianwool

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Differenciating between boating and sailing appears a bit like splitting hairs in my opinion, being out on the water is what really counts in both instances. Sailing craft users may well have affinity with slow displacement motor boats, but that to me smacks of intolerance i.e. you can have one of those but not a planing hull or semi displacement hull because we have no tolerance of those. TOLERANCE and UNDERSTANDING should be what is practised.
 

Sgeir

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1. There is no need to shout;

2. I actually agreed that there needs to be tolerance (the very first words as it happens);

3. Because I hold a different view to you re ""boating", "sailing", and confess to feeling an affinity with traditional displacement hull vessels, you accuse me of intolerance. Beggars belief.
 

Adrianwool

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No one accused you of intolerance, I thought the discussion we were having was across the piece not at the level of the individual, thus transcending the 'you and me' scenario. There is a famous saying that I don't necessarily agree with you but will defend to the end your right to say it, something I happen to believe in.
 

Adrianwool

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Thanks for courting opinion as to where I should be placed in the catagories of motor-boaters as described by Slow Boat.

I could of course make comment in regard to some of the 'types' who grace sailing.

But to do this would be demeaning and show a lack of respect for other people, shame it does not cut both ways.

Sincerely
 

BoyBlue49

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Lighten up, we are just jealous of you enjoying the weather in Lagosshh or where ever.

Can't help noticing we have gone off on a tangent to the origional posting, it usualy happens when sailing folk and mobos get together.

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 

Bandit

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It actually comes full circle.

being of the stinkpot persuasion I met a couple who had a very nice 50ft sailing yacht and wanted to sail it two or three handed so they had powered windlasses yes powered by a diesel generator.

So if you have that you are not that far from a slightly larger diesel engine which drives you at displacement speeds.

We all focus on the fuel burnt in propulsion and i heard recently that to produce a car was the equivalent i think in energy terms of two years motoring for that car.

So when you consider the oil by products that made the plastics for the sails and the energy to make the rig etc.

I am a semidisplacment person and sometimes an efficient displacment yacht makes sense?

PS i did not expect this point to go down well on this forum.
 

ksutton

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Adrian

Can I apologise for using the word stink, it was wrong of me and I didn't mean it to be derogatory at all. I had a power boat for 10 years before learning to sail and buying a sailing boat, I can and do appreciate both sides.
 

charles_reed

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A challenging concept and, looking at most boat use in the Med, probably true in those waters.

On the whole I cannot fault his deductions.

He would be ill-advised to go to Libya, there are contradictory official attitudes to leisure-sail visitors there, but next door Tunisia offers diesel at the equivalent of €0.45/litre.
 

wotayottie

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No - two totally different hobbies. Went out on a 300 bhp power cat this morning, teararsing round the Solent. Very interesting and I can now see where all the raggie moans about wash and close passing come from. If you have a boat like the one I was on ( we maxed out at 65 knots by the way!) then the Solent really is crowded and simply hitting the gaps at speed means getting close to some sail boats. And since the boat is all about power and speed, there's absolutely no point in just doing 5 knots.

But I'm a raggie and despite being more than a bit of a petrolhead, I couldnt see anything in the mobo that would amuse me for more than a morning. Bit like flying a private plane - once you've learned the skill, what can you do with it except tear round in circles.

As against that sailing is also about aquiring and using skills, but you can use the skills to wander far and wide if you wish. The skills are a bit more absorbing that simply operating the electronic throittle, and even our mobo skipper was of that view. You might not use those skills to go further than the IoW, but you could if you wished.

Where the big mobos fit into this I'm less sure. I cant imagine the speed element is as attractive. The accommodation must be brilliant on some of them. But are they muchj more than a moveable holiday cottage?

So as I started out saying - they are different hobbies. Sailing is all about skill, big mobos are all about the destination and the party whilst the speedboat is all about ... speed? The only thing in common is the water they sit on.
 
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