Motor Boat "Charlie" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

[DAKA]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

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[
That wasn't edited, it was completely re-written, see my post above for the original!

.

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I changed the text as I remembered you were the sensitive type and took exception to one of my previous posts, the facts remain the same.

I would like to make it perfectly clear that if I came across a pair of twits with spinnakers up in a busy narrow track I would reduce speed.

I actually avoid west Alderney and take the race for this very reason.

Now back to your 'open waters' in the solent /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Nauti Fox]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

Sorry to hear about your incident, there are some total [--word removed--] out there.

 

[gjgm]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

How wide is a 40ft mobo...say 10ft.. that leaves 20ft between each boat, say at 25-30knots. Thats some fancy driving , I agree, and bloody stupid, even if he is sure you will both keep the course dead straight.

 

[DAKA]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

I think the problem is different interpretations and impressions of the situation.

Several times I have wanted to put my point of view across but attempts to articulate the situation have been destroyed by others who put an alternative slant on the situation (yourself instrumental).

As irritating as it is may be now, you in fact taught me to look for alternative points of view.

What happened to you , if as you described it was disgraceful.
Perhaps next time you can be more prepared so as not to engineer such situations.

A 50 ft stinker who is not prepared to deviate from his track would have been on his track along with all the other stinkers, you know where they are as well as I do , bit like setting a race course across a busy channel !

Most people are happy to slow down but you shouldn't be surprised when a few dont, I expect the increased cost of fuel to see an increase in these close shaves.

For clarity, I would not have forced through such a narrow gap.

 

[flaming]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

Very interesting, but....

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Perhaps next time you can be more prepared so as not to engineer such situations.

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How? I was coming into a turning mark and preparing to drop the spinnaker. Even if I wasn't my speed is very low compared to his.

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A 50 ft stinker who is not prepared to deviate from his track would have been on his track along with all the other stinkers, you know where they are as well as I do , bit like setting a race course across a busy channel !



[/ QUOTE ]

This guy was well inshore of all the other MOBO traffic. After charging past us he was last seen plowing through the trots off cowes. And from a sailing point of veiw, the paths of MOBOs never seem to follow much of a pattern.
But as I've said repeatedly this was not a MOBO/raggie problem it was a simple case of bad manners.

Let's not start on the race courses across channels thing, history (and many threads) tell us that we're never going to agree on that one....

 

[DAKA]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

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Perhaps next time you can be more prepared so as not to engineer such situations.

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How? I was coming into a turning mark and preparing to drop the spinnaker. [ QUOTE ]


You might want to step back and look at what you are posting here, you are in danger of dropped your self in an impossible position .

As a professional you have an implied duty of care to 'guests' on your boat.

Posting on here saying how dangerous it is when a stinker charges by in effect prevents you from safely carrying 'guests' in areas where stinkers frequent.............such as the solent.

Perhaps the moderators should be asked to delete your apparent admission of unsuitability of your boat or worse questioning your own competence as skipper.

Any injury sustained on your boat could be deemed as your fault by subjecting 'guests' to a foreseeable danger, a link to this thread could sink you.

Boats will often take more than the skipper, you should have more confidence in your boat.

The stinker was a @@@@ and shouldn't be on the water but there are plenty more like him.

 

[motayotty]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

Dont bite. Your post was worthy for not trying to upset the mobos. Next someone will say it was your race not ours, etc etc.
I think you will find the antagonistic comments come from 30ft and above?
You have as much right to be there as anyone else and to be treated with courtesy and safety. Dont ruin it and fall into the slanging match that some are tryiingt to goad you in to.
Cheers Simon.

 

[flaming]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Perhaps next time you can be more prepared so as not to engineer such situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

How? I was coming into a turning mark and preparing to drop the spinnaker. [ QUOTE ]


You might want to step back and look at what you are posting here, you are in danger of dropped your self in an impossible position .

As a professional you have an implied duty of care to 'guests' on your boat.

Posting on here saying how dangerous it is when a stinker charges by in effect prevents you from safely carrying 'guests' in areas where stinkers frequent.............such as the solent.

Perhaps the moderators should be asked to delete your apparent admission of unsuitability of your boat or worse questioning your own competence as skipper.

Any injury sustained on your boat could be deemed as your fault by subjecting 'guests' to a foreseeable danger, a link to this thread could sink you.

Boats will often take more than the skipper, you should have more confidence in your boat.

The stinker was a @@@@ and shouldn't be on the water but there are plenty more like him.

[/ QUOTE ]

(quoted just in case you try that editing trick again)

Firstly, as I have stated above - I was neither working or the skipper on Sunday.

Secondly, as I stated above I didn't consider it dangerous, just rude.

And I don't exactly think anyone else would share your view that because motorboats sometimes happen to be in the solent I shouldn't sail there because as I knew they might be there then it would be my fault if one hits me or comes close enough that their wash was dangerous.
(correct me if I'm wrong in what you are implying)

Now be gone, troll.

 

[benjenbav]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

Even allowing the benefit of the doubt for the navigational behaviour: everyone makes mistakes etc etc. what seems so disappointing is the verbal hostility to which you were treated.

So many people just won't apologise. They're never in the wrong; everything is someone else's fault.

 

[DAKA]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

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[because motorboats sometimes happen to be in the solent I shouldn't sail there because as I knew they might be there then it would be my fault if one hits me or comes close enough that their wash was dangerous.
(correct me if I'm wrong in what you are implying)

Now be gone, troll.

[/ QUOTE ]


Not at all what I intended to imply, but you are not looking for clarity are you, 'be gone' /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Only giving a fraction of the twoddle you gave me recently /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

So an accidental gybe isn't dangerous? It's just rude? That's not what your first post implied. FWIW, I think DAKA has a fair point. It's not good seamanship to put yourself in a position where an accidental gybe might occur and I would suggest that off Cowes on a sunny Sunday afternoon is just such a position. I'm not defending the stupidity of mobo Charlie but encountering the wash of passing traffic off Cowes is hardly an unusual situation, is it?

 

[flaming]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

[ QUOTE ]
So an accidental gybe isn't dangerous? It's just rude? That's not what your first post implied. FWIW, I think DAKA has a fair point. It's not good seamanship to put yourself in a position where an accidental gybe might occur and I would suggest that off Cowes on a sunny Sunday afternoon is just such a position. I'm not defending the stupidity of mobo Charlie but encountering the wash of passing traffic off Cowes is hardly an unusual situation, is it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wash from a passing MOBO at a sensible distance is not going to put you in danger of an accidental gybe, and was only so in this case because the still breaking part of the wash hit our quarter and tried to slew us round.
Because this was not a family crew but an experienced and competent race crew we were able to deal with it - so not dangerous just annoying.

As to the suggestion that racing with a spinnaker up off cowes - the very home of yacht racing - is innapropriate...

I'm speachless.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

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As to the suggestion that racing with a spinnaker up off cowes - the very home of yacht racing - is innapropriate...


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I'm speachless (sic!)too but I can't stop laughing about this comment. You're not serious are you? That's going to go down well in a coroner's court when you're trying to explain why one of your crew has fallen overboard

 

[flaming]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As to the suggestion that racing with a spinnaker up off cowes - the very home of yacht racing - is innapropriate...


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I'm speachless (sic!)too but I can't stop laughing about this comment. You're not serious are you? That's going to go down well in a coroner's court when you're trying to explain why one of your crew has fallen overboard

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course I'm serious.

If you honestly believe that wash from a motorboat is likely to result in a MOB from a racing boat you clearly have absolutely no notion of what life on a racing boat is like.

To use your "coroner's court" analogy, whos judgement is a court going to trust - someone who races week in week out in that stretch of water without ever having heard of a MOB resulting from wash - or someone who doesn't race at all?

You would be wise to comment on what you know about only.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

flaming, you are backtracking here and in danger of making a bit of a fool of yourself. May I remind you what you said in your initial post

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Your actions in this caused both boats considerable hardships, I had to go from lock to lock and back very quickly to prevent an accidental gybe as we rolled through 45 degrees each way, and with a less experienced crew we could have easily damaged our spinnaker as it collapsed


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The clear inference here is that the wash caused a dangerous situation with risk to crew and equipment which was only averted by the experience of the crew. So which was it, a dangerous situation involving considerable hardships or just rude , to use your own words?

 

[flaming]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

It did give us hardships, I did have to go lock to lock to prevent a gybe.
But there wasn't much wind, with more wind there wouldn't have been the danger of the gybe, and with the light winds the gybe wouldhave been mild. So was it dangerous to the crew? No.
Was there the potential of damage to the spinnaker? Of course, and the trimmer did a great job of preventing it wrapping round the forestay. There is always the danger of damage to a spinnaker when it collapses, as it was bound to with such a wash, when it wraps round the forestay.

But then you're missing the point, this guy was Waaaaaaay too close, we were hit by the part of the wash that was still breaking! The general traffic off cowes that you were reffering to doesn't act like that, the wake that you meet is therefore not breaking and comes with enough notice so you can adjust the boat and trim the sails to react. Is that still annoying? In light winds yes - it still shakes the wind out of the sails and stops the boat. In strong winds no.
But is that dangerous? Of course not.

So no, I'm not backtracking.

 

[Its_Only_Money]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

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What a plonker, hope someone has a not too quiet word in his ear.

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Trouble is "Charlie" may or may not be the boat's name (it was a best guess), and there may or may not be more than one "Charlie" that fits the perps description around the Solent ports. Unlikely that it will become obvious whether the "Charlie" along the pontoon is the perp so the likelyhood of "having a word" with the wrong boat-owner is very real IMHO....

 

[DAKA]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

You told me to **** off on the forum but continue to ask advice by pm, the last time you played that game I sort have got an apology/agreement by pm but you didnt post it, hence I am here now replying to your pms.

Manslaughter charge is unlikely but possible.
WHAT IS MORE LIKELY is a crew member or 'guest' gets a bump to the forehead or laceration to hand/shin, then gets stopped by a dolly bird armed with a clip board, laughing and flirting a questionair is completed and the 'no win no fee process is started.
skipper takes novice into dangerous situation evidenced here by your own post.

Your insurers would never let it go to court, forget your and your sailing buddies perceived rights.

98.5% of cases are in favour of the claimant, thats because no win no fee are no going to risk a case failing as they dont get paid, hence only dead certs get to court.

Now the Insurers only know stats which show they have a 1.5% chance of defending a case.
As it costs £10,000 to defend this petty case it is easier to cough up without a fight.

Your next move is to get this thread deleted and then have a word with your committee not to set races across busy tracks/channels.
You might be as well speaking to a successful cruiser team to get the message across, no one likes listening to a wingeing looser.

I think you said the boat in question was to the side ?, perhaps he had made an attempt to go around the fleet but felt he was running out of water , this can happen even in the 'open waters ' of the solent

Now please read the post again before you go off on one, you have some excellent advice here if you care to read it, although I dont know why I bother.

 

[volvopaul]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

It would be interesting if the owner or skipper of charlie would come forward to give his version of events, now i have in past years sailed but am a motorboater as it serves my needs to get to sea.
I think after reading all posts and replies this has turned into the usuall raggie versus mobo debate which there is no outcome for both sides.

What you must remember is the Solent is one of the busiest waterways in the world and is there for us all to use equally, how you can say that his actions are unacceptable is entirely your view, unless you can quote anything from the regulations that withstand your view.

Cowes roads and associated areas are very busy at weekends and we all have to be onguard and expect the unexpected in order to be safe.

What you must also take in mind is that your boat is designed to travel at one speed and a mobo at another, most mobos actually create less wash at say 20knots than at 10 knots so speed is not the case here, more a fact that a collision is greater when more speed is the case.

I do sympathise with you but you must remember that we spend more time taking different tracks to avoid you and the rules say we have to than sometimes we get any credit for.

What also can annoy a mobo and I will quote this sundays scenario leaving Bembridge is the fact that yachts take great delight in going slow and trying to set there sails in totally the wrong place whilst other boats are trying to leave the harbour through a small channel, then complain about the wash when we have to go past them, what can they expect when they half block off a narrow channel.

Maybe its time the rules were rewritten.

 

[flaming]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

let's get one thing clear, I have never come to you for "advice". I regard you as quite possibly the most uninformed person I have ever come across, the level of missunderstanding you have on this subject is legendary, your name is a joke on scuttlebut.

I gave you a chance to respond to very specific questions by PM, you ignored them and continued to preach your nonsense here instead. Well fair play, but I will not be bullied off a thread by someone peaddling such a bizzare brand of nonsense.

To even suggest that a skipper (which again, I wasn't) of a sailing vessel involved in an incident with any other type of vessel, or even another sailing vessel could be found liable for any incident for which it was not actually at fault on the basis that the skipper knew that other boats would be about is utterly laughable, step back and apply that to any other walk of life.

"Cars go on roads, and some of them are badly driven, so if I cross a pedestrian crossing with my child it will be my fault if we're hit by a car."

Utter rubbish.