More problems locally.

I have no doubt and I in no way condone their activity nor should my knowledge of the owner imply that I would, but I recognise the old owner, and would also have recognised the new.
 
I have great sympathy for those made redundant at Fairline, Foxes, and also Caparo (near my home), Tata, Redcar, JCB (laid off) etc. That sympathy is associated with anger at our governments, last Labour, Coalition and the Present Tory, and the Bank of England for so shaping our economy that we have such a high pound that manufacturing finds it so very hard to compete. Moreover many more companies, such as JLR have a large number of their "employees"as bought in agency workers so that the company can fluctuate the size of the labour force, usually without adverse press coverage.
I dont know the full details of the Fairline saga, but I do know the misfortune of Sealine, 10 miles away from my house. The company was created out of a caravan manufacturing business and built up over 20 years or so by hard family work and then sold to a large American Company, who to be fair invested until the 2008 recession forced them to retract overseas and it was sold to a company who shortly afterwards, as with Fairline, closed it down. The intellectual rights then passed to Hanse and the brand is now made in Germany. Ironically some of the premises are now used to mold glassfibre panels for caravans and horse boxes!
I speculate as to which country and brand the Fairline moulds will go. Bavaria? Arcona? South America? We shall see.
 
Javelin said:
We hear on the grape vine, (visitors, reps, customers) all sorts of woes and tribulations about what is or isn't happening at various yards on our coast.
I have to say that there seems to have been a lot more stories coming true this year.

Even for businesses that on the face of it seem ok you then hear some strange decision making which smacks of either greed or desperation.
One such is the trend toward charging contractors a set fee for working on site.
This used to be something like £35 per day or I think Foxes charged £500 a year.
I hear things are changing in the new year to a charge of £15 per hour !!
This obviously gets pushed onto the customer and tries in effect to force the customer to choose the yard facilities at their rate of £48 per hour or more, making it very hard for the man in a van to make a living no matter how good he is.
Bad news for any of the folk recently made redundant who might think they could go it alone.
On the up side it helps yards like us with a charge out rate of £28 per hour but then we don't have a marina stuffed with boats on our doorstep so folks have to make an effort to get here.

I hear also that some yards are trying to stop owners from working on their own boats and using yard facilities.
Often using health and safety and other such spurious excuses to justify it.
I find this daft and short sighted.
What ever happened to developing a long term relationship with customers?
Click to expand...
This looks like not very well hidden advertising for your labour rates!
I am not in the slightest surprised that the other boatyard you quote has a labour rate considerably higher than yours because they are a bigger outfit. A picture in Anglia Afloat showed about 60-70 workers (I didn't count them). That would mean at least 5 or 6 managers, a wages clerk and an accountant, together with more substantial business rates and other overheads. I don't blame them at all for raising money from outside contractors; indeed I am surprised that they do not ban all except for when there is no expertise on site eg. in this case, sail and canvas work. Outside contractors use their car parks, electricity, water, pontoons, hard standing, and probably toilets, all provided by the capital of, and maintained by, someone else.
The case you quote is of a large boatyard with a small marina attached. In most cases on the South and East Coast there is a large marina with a small boatyard attached; often rented out accommodation to individual traders. I doubt whether such traders would allow outside contractors to work in their premises without charge unless to help complete a job taken on.
 
Kurrawong_Kid said:
I have great sympathy for those made redundant at Fairline, Foxes, and also Caparo (near my home), Tata, Redcar, JCB (laid off) etc. That sympathy is associated with anger at our governments, last Labour, Coalition and the Present Tory, and the Bank of England for so shaping our economy that we have such a high pound that manufacturing finds it so very hard to compete. Moreover many more companies, such as JLR have a large number of their "employees"as bought in agency workers so that the company can fluctuate the size of the labour force, usually without adverse press coverage.
I dont know the full details of the Fairline saga, but I do know the misfortune of Sealine, 10 miles away from my house. The company was created out of a caravan manufacturing business and built up over 20 years or so by hard family work and then sold to a large American Company, who to be fair invested until the 2008 recession forced them to retract overseas and it was sold to a company who shortly afterwards, as with Fairline, closed it down. The intellectual rights then passed to Hanse and the brand is now made in Germany. Ironically some of the premises are now used to mold glassfibre panels for caravans and horse boxes!
I speculate as to which country and brand the Fairline moulds will go. Bavaria? Arcona? South America? We shall see.
Click to expand...
All automotive manufacturers worldwide use a minimum of 15% of contract engineering and test staff, and the UK leads the world in their supply.. I was one for more than 20 years until the recession and senior managerial opportunities led me to permanent employment.
I also note you quote Germany as a low cost manufacturing country!!!!! No, they are efficient and invest for the longer term, and usually retain company control, and ensure shareholders and corporate investors are kept in check with regard to short term profits. Note also that Hanse themselves have been the subject of a liquidation and restructuring. That's spillikins for you.
Any yard employing 5-6 managers does not deserve to succeed, it is a low cost hands on industry.
Also, customers will move to wherever there is a perceived benefit, and if that means allowing independents, as most marinas do, then they have to keep their overcharge rates and conditions competitive, or the dcustomer will go elsewhere. My experience to date is that they insist on Liability insurance (quite rightly), and 10% of the overall invoice. Quite a fair amount I think.
There are still many alternative to the small marina/large boatyard facility on the Orwell near a certain bridge, and they don't have a brilliant reputation, so surely they should charge a fair levy, which means some money rather than no money coming in, and no effort incurred on their part.
I also think that Javelin is entitles to raise this subject, and I think it is a bit off to accuse him of touting his rates when he does so much positively and for free on this forum. Other marine/electronics engineers on this forum are available at fair rates too.
 
With respect I did not write that Germany was a low cost country. I agree with you that Germany invests for the long term and is efficient (VW's perceived problems apart).
 
johnalison said:
Since you are apparently too dumb to consider the possibility that I may not have actually seen your post while being otherwise engaged, I don't imagine that you will be up to understanding any possible answer.
Click to expand...

No don't worry yourself, I did consider it but new full well this comment was made because Fairline build motorboats and you are the kind of wafi that has your nose so high in the air you fail to see what's in front of you. Good day.
 
Firstly I'm sorry if I gave the impression I was advertising and having read my post again it can be read as such but my actual intention was to flag up a comparison which as an owner and sailor myself I thought was relevant.
I am perhaps guilty of living in the past a little where there were essentially three types of boat works.
1, Owners doing it themselves,
2, A man with a van or small local shed/workshop.
3, A boat yard with lifting, covered workshops, painting facilities etc.
My point is that it seems that there is less opportunity for 1 and 2 to exist and in many cases this is driven by the yards.
Once a yard has removed 1 and 2 it can raise its rates as its created a localised monopoly.
As an boat owner I believe this is sad and in the longer term, bad news for all but the wealthy owners who can afford full yard rates.
Driving the small first timers or folk sailing on a tight budget away, forgetting that one day these same people may well upgrade and require full yard facilities in the future.
I'm in the lucky situation that I'm able to carry out much of the work on my boat myself and that our harbour allows us to do it.
 
Javelin said:
Firstly I'm sorry if I gave the impression I was advertising and having read my post again it can be read as such but my actual intention was to flag up a comparison which as an owner and sailor myself I thought was relevant.
I am perhaps guilty of living in the past a little where there were essentially three types of boat works.
1, Owners doing it themselves,
2, A man with a van or small local shed/workshop.
3, A boat yard with lifting, covered workshops, painting facilities etc.
My point is that it seems that there is less opportunity for 1 and 2 to exist and in many cases this is driven by the yards.
Once a yard has removed 1 and 2 it can raise its rates as its created a localised monopoly.
As an boat owner I believe this is sad and in the longer term, bad news for all but the wealthy owners who can afford full yard rates.
Driving the small first timers or folk sailing on a tight budget away, forgetting that one day these same people may well upgrade and require full yard facilities in the future.
I'm in the lucky situation that I'm able to carry out much of the work on my boat myself and that our harbour allows us to do it.
Click to expand...
And i have always done so.
There is no way i would pay inflated prices either.
Tis a shame the way this thread has developed with MoBoer vs Sailor or vicky verky
 
Javelin said:
Firstly I'm sorry if I gave the impression I was advertising and having read my post again it can be read as such but my actual intention was to flag up a comparison which as an owner and sailor myself I thought was relevant.
I am perhaps guilty of living in the past a little where there were essentially three types of boat works.
1, Owners doing it themselves,
2, A man with a van or small local shed/workshop.
3, A boat yard with lifting, covered workshops, painting facilities etc.
My point is that it seems that there is less opportunity for 1 and 2 to exist and in many cases this is driven by the yards.
Once a yard has removed 1 and 2 it can raise its rates as its created a localised monopoly.
As an boat owner I believe this is sad and in the longer term, bad news for all but the wealthy owners who can afford full yard rates.
Driving the small first timers or folk sailing on a tight budget away, forgetting that one day these same people may well upgrade and require full yard facilities in the future.
I'm in the lucky situation that I'm able to carry out much of the work on my boat myself and that our harbour allows us to do it.
Click to expand...

Yep, but as I said, the marina that pulls those stunts will soon lose their first time feeder customers. Then their older customers retire.move away/sell the boat and....no more business except for those that can afford the full concierge service. Not many of those in reality
 
I am still confused why anyone would be happy at the demise of a British boat builder, that employed local people and supplied by other British businesses who will also be out of pocket for unpaid orders. I wish all former employees of Fairline the best of luck in finding alternative employment.
 
Javelin said:
Firstly I'm sorry if I gave the impression I was advertising and having read my post again it can be read as such but my actual intention was to flag up a comparison which as an owner and sailor myself I thought was relevant.
Click to expand...

Please don't apologise, I like your labour rates and your attitude to customer service, if we can't advertise that sort of thing on our own forum then what the heck has happened? I plan to ask for a quote.

As for some others on this thread the vituperative posts and uncool posts about mobos, those who drive them and those who build them - are they ECF? This is a local forum for local people whatever they drive or build :D
 
FullCircle said:
Yep, but as I said, the marina that pulls those stunts will soon lose their first time feeder customers. Then their older customers retire.move away/sell the boat and....no more business except for those that can afford the full concierge service. Not many of those in reality
Click to expand...
I think it's horses for courses. Usually I do my own maintenance and get pleasure from so doing. Occasionally I have paid a yard to do some work, not necessarily where I keep my boat and, when pushed for time have taken the hit and had a big job done at considerable expense.
However the "little man" cannot do all jobs; major insurance work for sizeable boats for instance. The main point I was making in my earlier post was that large yards have greater costs and consequently higher hourly rates, just as main car dealers charge more for servicing than the independent mechanics. Unless they do the work on your drive though, the independent has to provide his/her own premises at his/her expense, not piggy back as happens in the marine trade.
 
Colvic Watson said:
Please don't apologise, I like your labour rates and your attitude to customer service, if we can't advertise that sort of thing on our own forum then what the heck has happened? I plan to ask for a quote.

As for some others on this thread the vituperative posts and uncool posts about mobos, those who drive them and those who build them - are they ECF? This is a local forum for local people whatever they drive or build :D
Click to expand...

"Vituperative" and "uncool" in one sentence ---- that's cool :encouragement:
 
Alright, let's get back to proper East Coast Forum mode of exchange... What is Vituperative when it is at home? Uncool I understand, I am, after all, 'down wit da kids' but I don't think I have ever come across any of that Vituperthingy before.

EDIT: Just googled it. So that's what the wife keeps doing to me in her text messages!
 
Last edited:
Eurybia said:
I am still confused why anyone would be happy at the demise of a British boat builder, that employed local people and supplied by other British businesses who will also be out of pocket for unpaid orders. I wish all former employees of Fairline the best of luck in finding alternative employment.
Click to expand...

As do I, & I'm sure that with the benefit of hindsight, anyone posting uncharitable comments regrets not putting brain in gear before typing. Either that or it is a sad reflection of their personality.
 
Colvic Watson said:
As for some others on this thread the vituperative posts and uncool posts about mobos, those who drive them and those who build them - are they ECF? This is a local forum for local people whatever they drive or build :D
Click to expand...

I think this is all because we have moved form our nice little backwater of the 'Forum Member Events', to the mainstream Forum. Can we start a petition to get moved back to our backwater please.
 
I had to look twice to see if I had clicked the Lounge in error :ambivalence:

I have always found the ECF to be a friendly place whatever persuasion of craft.

Perhaps put a few of the comments down to pre Christmas Humbug :encouragement:
 
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