Mopeds on board - paperwork

[MikeKopman]

Hi All,
Awkward letter from a reader. Can anyone offer some advice or share some experience?
Cheers,
Mike

Dear YM,
We are living aboard and cruising the Mediterranean covering various countries, (Greece, Malta, Italy, France, Spain) on our Venezia 42 Catamaran. We also intend to cross the Atlantic and cruise the Caribbean. We are lucky that it has the space for us to carry a 50cc Moped to get us around at various ports of call.  The moped has been out of the UK for more than 12 months and so there is no up-to-date MOT.  How do we go about insuring the moped for our use in all of these countries.
 
I have heard that it could be classed as a "Tender-To" and be insured on our boat insurance as long as the moped is marked "Tender-To.....". Our Insurance company, Pantaneus, has been unhelpful in this matter, they wont insure it, suggesting the unpractical solution that we MOT, TAX and insure it in each country. I have asked other marine and non-marine insurance companies, but I have not found one that will help me. Im turning to you and your readers to offer any help.
 
What is the legal standing on having a land based motorised tender on a boat?
How do I insure it?
 
Feel free to publish the question, but please could you reply your response to me direct, as we get the yachting monthly magazine as and when we see it on our travels.
 
Thanks in advance
Rob Hygate.


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[Sybarite]

As French mopeds do not need to registered - only 3rd party insured - I often wondered what would happen if I brought one to the UK.

I suggest that you "buy" it in France (sell it to somebody and then buy it back from them with a French bill of sale - and exchange of cheques). Then claim that it does not require registration. This should be ok in the EU (freedom of movement) but elsewhere I don't know.

If you are based in France you could try contacting the Mutuelle des Motards an insurance company set up by motor cyclists themselves when insurance permiums went sky high. (Lesson for UK yachtsmen and berthholders ??)

John

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[Gunfleet]

You sure about that John? Sounds like an opportunity for people to start asking for Attestation de Conformite and a visit to the Service des Mines... could turn into a nightmare. If the moped has an English reg number why not just use it untaxed abroad. Who'll know the difference? As long as it's insured in the UK the insurance will be good EU wide. Then when you get back to the UK book an appointment at an MOT garage and the law allows you to drive/ride the vehicle there to be tested. But you must have an appointment.

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[Sybarite]

Hello John

I don't think anybody would bother for a moped. The insurance is the important point. If there is a permanent address insure there covering foreign use. If not try something like the Mutuelle. Unfotunately most insurance companies only like short - term foreign visits which is not the case here.

John

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[Twister_Ken]

Scrap it and buy a push bike. nm

`

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[Gunfleet]

Hi John
I see what you mean but mopeds don't have any great intrinsic value - 3rd party insurance will do. And all motor insurance issued in the EC is legal minimum (3rd party) in all EU states. So a basic moped policy in England will do in France as long as you just want to be legal.

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[steve_cronin]

Only problem with that is.....

.. (& read your own motor policy if you don't believe me) is that if your vehicle is illegally on the road then your insurance is invalid!

Think again.

If the yacht is UK registered then you would be expected to comply with UK Road Traffic Acts and Construction and Use Regulations initially so it would need to be UK registered & plated.

Buy one on the continent, get it insured there - although even that might be a problem since you won't have a permanent address to satisfy any local MLRs and that is a different story because all you are doing is carrying it around. Greece also doesn't have registration plates on mopeds.

Most of the superyachts that carry "land tenders" have them registered in the country of registry of the yacht.

If Mike can wait a week or two, I'm in Greece next week and I know just the bloke to ask.

Steve Cronin

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[Gunfleet]

Re: Only problem with that is.....

Steve,
I am working from the basis that the vehicle is UK registered. I've no idea what 'illegally on the road' means in specific terms. Not conforming to con & use? Not having a vehicle test certificate? Failing to display a vehicle excise licence? 3rd party insurance can't be invalidated in the way you imply. The only thing which is a catch all is an 'unlicensed driver who would be prevented from holding a license for the vehicle' (usually implying under age or banned otherwise). What's more, there's nothing in the Road Traffic Act of 1988 which applies to French, Italian or Spanish roads. Don't you think there might be a reason why I know this instead of just guessing? Please don't take the following amiss. We all contribute here for fun. Please be a good neighbour - lay off the imperatives and the exclamation marks.
Yours
John

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[Metabarca]

I run a moped in Italy where, in theory it should have insurance, tax paid and a sort of MOT if over (I think 3 years old). You must wear a helmet. In practice, in the north of Italy, police will check insurance and the helmet but not bother with the rest. In the south anything goes (a policeman was filmed without a helmet down south and had the effrontery to deny it, saying the film was wrong!).
Anyway, all you need I reckon to satisfy the authorities here is the green card insurance certificate. Your UK insurer should give you this free (and probably automatically too).
The police are certainly not going to be interested in UK MOT certificates or any other nonsense. To buy a moped here, you would need an Italian address and residence.

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[steve_cronin]

Re: Only problem with that is.....

You have a personal message from me in response to this personal criticism.

Steev Cronin

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[tcm]

Re: Only problem with that is.....

It isn't a condition of insurance that you have a tax disc. For example, if car gets nicked, how to check? Or, if car gets nicked, and only has tax disc for 1 month, then when you get paid out (not for 2 months) haha it's not taxed! So, uk tax disc not an issue.

Mainland Europe has a most relaxed attitude to motorbikes, unlike in UK where they are two-wheeled cars and the only real concession has been to exclude them from congestion charge. With UK reg document and insurance you have 3rd party cover. Elsewhere, you'll damage self rather than others so insure medically. To guard against theft, get a big lock and cover the thing with tarpaulin overnight, and in any case the exces will mean it almost isn't insured anyway, like dinghies on boats.



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[warrior40]

Hi,
I for one, would not be losing any sleep over the matter, as abroad, especially the caribbean and the Pacific islands, they don't even have any laws re insurance and MOTs etc, and where they do, nobody bothers to comply. In one Pacific island, we were able to hire mobikes and mopeds, having no licence or paperwork!
Even in New Zealand, there is no requirement for insurance and many people drive un insured as the norm!
This is first hand info, so please feel free to contact me to confirm. I have met one yacht with a motor bike aboard and they didnot seem concerned with any of your worries.

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[tcm]

I agree. Except...that having driving licence on your person seems the norm. In penang, we rented bikes, roiund a corner there was an army roadblock, and for half an hour we were detained at the side of the road, so everyone else who came past and was stopped was congratulated on having their licences, "unlike THESE people (pointing to us) who have no driving licence with them!"

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[steve_cronin]

Re: Only problem with that is.....

No it's the roadworthy condition that matters. I've checked with a loss adjuster this afternoon who would recommend refusal of a claim as not having an MoT would be considered a failure to disclose a material fact and that the safety of the vehicle would be in question. He also said that "foreign" cover only relates to a journey originating and ending in the UK.

In this country we apply laws because they are laws. In some continental countries the law is only applied when the police officer thinks it appropriate. He sees regulations as part of his toolkit.

We picked up a hirecar from a Greek No Waiting area and delivered it back to the same place - it was next to the police station and nobody bothered. The car was still there amongst a mass of others at midday the next day. Now when they wanted to clear the street for the Independence day parade they got them shifted PDQ even winching some of them up onto a low loader when necessary.

I'll get the official line on this when we go out again next week.

Steve Cronin

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[Gunfleet]

Re: Only problem with that is.....

The last loss adjuster I had any dealings with tried to get my BMW dealer to straighten the frame on a motorcycle (mine) that a lorry driver (his insured) had backed over. 'No thanks,' says BMW dealer, 'I like to sleep at night.' Being a loss adjuster is almost a definition of trying it on, and is never less than partie prise. Are you going to send me a rude pm about that too, or is it the case that we all just have to accept your view?

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[Col]

I would speak to Colin Scott (cscott49) He has a bike (Yam I think) on his boat. He must have got round these issues some how.

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[tcm]

Re: CCscotts bike

Yes, but his bike is so nicely tied up, he stays at anchor a lot, and surely no cop would dare stop him.

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