ashtead
Well-known member
Sorry yes I had accepted the bow might blow off and he would power in by the short midships line as he went back using his bowthuster . It’s just how a number round here seem to do it.
Mooring up fun
- Thread starter MagicalArmchair
- Start date
[163233]
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Our berth has the misfortune of the prevailing wind blowing us off like that. We have a line rigged with a loop at each end and in the middle, measured out in advance. This is attached alongside from the stern to mid ships fairlead. If we can get the middle loop on a clear then the boat is secured.
The finger is a bit short for the boat so this has the advantage of keeping the bow safe from the quayside. You can come in at a surprising pace provided you get that one loop on the cleat.
The finger is a bit short for the boat so this has the advantage of keeping the bow safe from the quayside. You can come in at a surprising pace provided you get that one loop on the cleat.
roaringgirl
Well-known member
My second attempt at an explanation: if you use the bow for the spring, the prop is trying to push the boat forwards against it. It can't because the spring is tight, and due to the shape of the front half of the boat the bow can't therefore pull away from the pontoon to allow the stern to come in. If you had the spring attached from amidships to anywhere on the pontoon behind or level with amidships, you would not have this problem and your plan would have worked.
TernVI
Well-known member
That's about right.
Think of the vectors acting on the boat.
What varies from boat to boat is how far the rudder can angle the thrust vector over to one side.
Some boat much further than others.
So a bow spring will work much more on some boats than others.
Best to find out by experiment when it doesn't matter.
KREW2
Well-known member
At the beginning of every season our club runs a seamanship day. Half of the day is spent on the sailing academy pontoons, and Portland marina, practicing coming alongside, reversing in marinas and berthing in different wind directions.
The diagram in post twelve is what we would do and it works, springing on.
Bow line taken round the back of a pontoon mid cleat, tiller hard to starboard, and gently drive the boat forward. It works, but whoever controls the shore line needs to know what they are doing, as well as the driver.
Well worth practicing on a calm day.
The diagram in post twelve is what we would do and it works, springing on.
Bow line taken round the back of a pontoon mid cleat, tiller hard to starboard, and gently drive the boat forward. It works, but whoever controls the shore line needs to know what they are doing, as well as the driver.
Well worth practicing on a calm day.
TernVI
Well-known member
It will only work if :
The fulcrum (fender) is far enough forwards
The rudder catches enough propwash
and the wind is not too strong
If the fender is too far back, the line is turning the boat clockwise.
If the pivot fender is ahead of where the line is attached to the boat, then the propthrust and the tension in the line are both applying an anti-clockwise torque to the boat, which will easily over come the clockwise effect of the wind.
It's hard to explain (if you are as bad at teaching as I am!)
I encourage people to draw the vectors and work it out for yourself.
It's a lever and lever problems are usually all about the fulcrum.
Moving the 'bow' line back towards the fender, even just a couple of feet to a fairlead can make a big difference.
LadyInBed
Well-known member
Stern bridal is good except when the finger pontoon is short and the end of the pontoon just ends in a D bar!
As in Cherbourg.
As in Cherbourg.
MagicalArmchair
Well-known member
Our finger is quite short! Which has made me go for the midships cleat option to the pontoons middle cleat, rather than the stern bridle. This worked a treat on the pontoon itself this weekend.
The wind was blowing harder this weeked (only F3 mind you), and, of course, in the same direction pushing us off our berth.
Coming into the lock we tried the midships cleat option, however I made a complete (relatively entertaining) cock up of entry. I killed the power too soon to slow us down after we entered the lock port side to, and the stern swung out to starboard. To correct, I put the power on again to come forward, and this saw the anchor gently connect with the pontoon making a satisfying crunch noise, which in turn brought a tirade of abuse from the angry, embarrassed first mate who was holding the midships line "The way we used to do it, using the bow line, always worked!" - I tried to calmly explain it wasn't the midships line fault I had cocked up, it was helmsmans error. Never mind! Onwards we chugged through the lock!
We entered the marina and we made our way up the pontoon. I approached reasonably quickly to maintain steerage. As I would have in my old, long keeled boat (and not learning from my lock incident moments earlier), I slowed down here, at the below point, with a view to creeping, safely, into the berth.
You guessed it, as I attempted to tiptoe in, the wind grabbed on and off we went to leward
At this point I weighed up my options. I could lay to the pontoon - once I was there, there would be no getting off without a spring - so it would be roping her across to her berth (when it's windy, I would suggest we may end up doing this if we miss the cleat), or I could go out backwards and start again. I went for the latter.
Back we came, I blessed my luck she does go backwards very well, the wind now helping me to bring the bow around and let me go back up the pontoon a ways. I figured the only way this was going to work was to come in with some speed on, and confidently stop her (the engine stops her incredibly well).
In I came, this time without slowing down, expertly brought her to a stop with the (still grimacing and red faced first mate) right next to her mid pontoon cleat. She stepped off calmly, made up her line to that cleat, and I chugged gently against it. The bow gently touched the fendered pontoon at the front, and all was well.
Note: Lots of people to see the "cock up in the lock", very few people to see the seemingly expert (on second attempt) mooring up on the finger
.
peter gibbs
Active member
In light breezes you have choices. When the wind is harder on the stbd quarter you'll lose control as you reduce way on the approach. So, you drop into the neighbouring slot and warp over. You do not want to run your bow onto the head pontoon - not dignified and leaves you with yet another repair job come the winter.
Or, you consider ( if you have the gear ready) approaching your berth and making first contact mid cleat to end of pontoon - using a loop or some capture gadget. This way you are on before the breeze runs you off and can warp along at your leisure. Takes good timing but you seem up to that. I used to keep a short line with a snubber wound into it so as to soften the stress when arresting.
But what to do in a really stiff breeze? I have faced this (as we all have) and you just chose your one shot only approach, run in smartish and let the wind put you on your carefully ranged fenders. And there you stay whilst you negotiate with the HM. I can't remember this being taught in those unending RYA lessons - but that's another story.
PWG
johnalison
Well-known member
Stern bridal doesn't sound like the sort of thing we should be discussing on a public forum.
MagicalArmchair
Well-known member
In my case I have both a bow fender (that I will be remove once I stop crashing into stuff) and the pontoon is fendered. Added to that we only touched very gently - however, that said, it did make me frown and even though an observer would not have noticed, it is not ideal, nor dignified touching the pontoon ahead. The issue here being that the margin for error is very small - the midships fairlead is not far enough forward (or the pontoon cleat is not far enough aft), meaning that the length between the midships fairlead and pontoon cleat must be very short indeed to prevent the boat from nuzzling the pontoon (the below photo is the boat in its ideal position, as far forward as I like it). This means two things need to happen - I need to be lined up perfectly with that cleat as I arrive, and the 1st mate needs to get it on sharpish.
There is another possibility - lead the rope back to the WINCH rather than the midships cleat, and through the midships fairlead. Then if there is slack in that line (as there was yesterday that allowed me to touch), I can just crank it in tight on the winch before applying ahead?
Alternatively, run the midships line back to the aft most cleat (as in the picture above)?
FairweatherDave
Well-known member
I was thinking (before you posted #51) and (in my inexpert armchair way) why you have targeted the middle pontoon cleat over the first cleat (outermost) on the pontoon?
So I concur with your final thought.
(Duncan Wells marks his line and uses the winch for adjustment. Likewise for the stern bridle if the finger is shorter than the boat he does not necessarily use the stern cleat directly to the pontoon, maybe running it off a spinnaker block to the pontoon instead)
So I concur with your final thought.
(Duncan Wells marks his line and uses the winch for adjustment. Likewise for the stern bridle if the finger is shorter than the boat he does not necessarily use the stern cleat directly to the pontoon, maybe running it off a spinnaker block to the pontoon instead)
Catalina36
N/A
"The issue here being that the margin for error is very small - the midships fairlead is not far enough forward (or the pontoon cleat is not far enough aft), meaning that the length between the midships fairlead and pontoon cleat must be very short indeed to prevent the boat from nuzzling the pontoon (the below photo is the boat in its ideal position, as far forward as I like it). "In my case I have both a bow fender (that I will be remove once I stop crashing into stuff) and the pontoon is fendered. Added to that we only touched very gently - however, that said, it did make me frown and even though an observer would not have noticed, it is not ideal, nor dignified touching the pontoon ahead. The issue here being that the margin for error is very small - the midships fairlead is not far enough forward (or the pontoon cleat is not far enough aft), meaning that the length between the midships fairlead and pontoon cleat must be very short indeed to prevent the boat from nuzzling the pontoon (the below photo is the boat in its ideal position, as far forward as I like it). This means two things need to happen - I need to be lined up perfectly with that cleat as I arrive, and the 1st mate needs to get it on sharpish.
There is another possibility - lead the rope back to the WINCH rather than the midships cleat, and through the midships fairlead. Then if there is slack in that line (as there was yesterday that allowed me to touch), I can just crank it in tight on the winch before applying ahead?
Alternatively, run the midships line back to the aft most cleat (as in the picture above)?
See my #40 above.
"My boat has midships cleats as standard, pretty much midships (!) and on the widest point of the beam. I added another pair level with the mast which have several purposes. They provide a different point of balance which counters any tendency for the bow to blow out in an off-pontoon wind when using the original cleats, they provide a better mooring point when using a shorter finger pontoon in another marina (to avoid ramming the end) ..."
mikegunn
Well-known member
To be honest, i don't see anything wrong with your initial configuration. That's probably the technique i would have used. There were several options available but I don't think any one has a significant advantge over the other. in my opinion, either you were being impatient, because a combination of foreward power and port rudder should have eventually brought you alongside or, there was another factor other than the wind having an effect. It would appear that you had entered a locked marina but was there still a current flowing through? Current, either tide induced or created by river flow will usually have a much greater effect on a boat than wind, particularly in a marina where a vessel is shielded from the influence of wind by othervessels. Take the time in a popular anchorage to observe the behaviour of other vessels as the tide turns. The multihulls and shallow draught or lifting keel mon's might remain wind rode for while but eventually the tidal effect will predominate. I'm currently moored in a popular UK harbour and so often see skippers look at the wind direction as they leave their moorings only to be caught out by the direction of current flow.
Mike
Mike
BobPrell
Well-known member
Yes a short dissertation from the OP on how they are done would round off this very productive thread.
dulls
N/A
He used google earth.
BobPrell
Well-known member
Oh duurrh.
That was my guess for the background. How did he paste on the boat graphic and the Wind arrow?
I could manage the dots and the lines.
MagicalArmchair
Well-known member
Actually used GIMP... (no, not that one!) and pasted stuff from Google maps. Dissertation? You are not thinking big enough - Thesis! GIMPs awesome and free, as good as Photoshop too.
That's a good idea, and I did read that. Just trying to get through the season with as much sailing as possible, whilst resisting the urge to take things to pieces\drill holes in them (that'll come in a few months time!). The midships option I think will work well for the finger, I just need to make sure I line the boat up neatly with it whilst not going to far ahead so the 1st mate can get the rope on and made off. In the lock, the stern bridle will work great as I am not limited by a short finger.
ProDave
Well-known member
You keep talking of holding the boat still while "1st mate can get the rope on and made off"
Sure that's what you do when visiting a strange mooring.
But for our home berth, the lines are left attached to the pontoon with loops in the end to slip over the cleats on the boat. It takes seconds to moor the boat and everything is already adjusted perfectly.
Try the same, unless your marina prohibits leaving ropes on the pontoon when away.
(it was the harbourmaster in our harbour that suggested we do this)
Sure that's what you do when visiting a strange mooring.
But for our home berth, the lines are left attached to the pontoon with loops in the end to slip over the cleats on the boat. It takes seconds to moor the boat and everything is already adjusted perfectly.
Try the same, unless your marina prohibits leaving ropes on the pontoon when away.
(it was the harbourmaster in our harbour that suggested we do this)
Catalina36
N/A
Now you're converted to a midships cleat routine, add a pole to the end of the pontoon (a rowlock stuck in a piece of 20mm plastic conduit mounted in a wooden block) and when you leave the berth hang the midships spring line on it. (The one running from the end of the pontoon to the midships cleat). On the approach, crew stands by midships cleat armed with shortish boathook, lifts the eye off the rowlock and drops it over the cleat at her feet. All done. Now just gently motor in against it and you can't hit the end of the berth. As soon as you're in she drops another line over the pontoon midships cleat and snugs that off to the boat's midships cleat to stop any drift off.