curve
New member
I'm just glad that most of the time Lynn chose to wear her swimsuit without the cumbersome lifejackets getting in the way of the view. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Moonfleet Sailing - Cruise from Hell
- Thread starter CarolSheppard
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fireball
New member
I think you've hit the nail on the head there ...
a good course is down to the instructor - and apparently he was on holiday .... so not really wanting to teach a load of students how to sail ...
We have OOD food onboard - when we spot it it usually gets dumped - depends how far out it is and the condition of it...
Sailing back in rough weather - well that could be fine - if the instructor took the time to explain what he was doing and the reasons for it - could be there was a tidal gate he needed to hit (or supermarket opening time as said above) - I don't think it is unreasonable to sail in rough weather - the skipper just needs to keep the crew informed.
As for waterproofs and LJs - as said - as long as they worked and they are reasonably clean then it is as expected. I don't borrow sailing kit as I much prefer my own.
Carol - looks like you had a bad time of it, but it shouldn't put you off - if you can survive that then you can survive the next course - try and meet up with the instructor before you book it and you'll see if you'll get on with him/her .... there are some really enthusiastic instructors who will have you doing far more than the course requirements. .....
a good course is down to the instructor - and apparently he was on holiday .... so not really wanting to teach a load of students how to sail ...
We have OOD food onboard - when we spot it it usually gets dumped - depends how far out it is and the condition of it...
Sailing back in rough weather - well that could be fine - if the instructor took the time to explain what he was doing and the reasons for it - could be there was a tidal gate he needed to hit (or supermarket opening time as said above) - I don't think it is unreasonable to sail in rough weather - the skipper just needs to keep the crew informed.
As for waterproofs and LJs - as said - as long as they worked and they are reasonably clean then it is as expected. I don't borrow sailing kit as I much prefer my own.
Carol - looks like you had a bad time of it, but it shouldn't put you off - if you can survive that then you can survive the next course - try and meet up with the instructor before you book it and you'll see if you'll get on with him/her .... there are some really enthusiastic instructors who will have you doing far more than the course requirements. .....
nct1
Member
Welcome to sailing
You appear to have purchased a budget training course with an expection of a luxury cruise.
In real life bad weather comes unannounced, and how you deal with it is more important than how successful you are at dodging it, you will be caught out no matter what you do. Once you realise you can deal with it and what makes life easier and what does not, your sailing will be safer.
Did your partner read up respecting the theoretical points of sailing first ? A practical course should really build on a theoretical knowledge base to be of most use, you can then observe what is going on knowing why it is being done, leaving you open to ask targetted questions.
Mold and boats, well it happens I am afraid. If they provided the latest Holly Hensen gear, we both know a lot of it would be "liberated", pushing the cost up further. The fact that you have not already got your own sailing gear indicates you are trying to see if sailing is for you, hopefully you have learned that you will need to spend a bit to get the appropriate gear, and good breathable stuff is a must.
Re the breakfast, frying up is possible but tricky, maybe for insurance purposes they have been told not to do it.
This may have put you off sailing, which would be a shame as it is a wonderful passtime, but hopefully you can learn some lessons from this.
1. Luxury sailing is not cheap, there are mediteranian cruises available but the cost will be a lot more that you paid for this experience.
2. You have probably seen the lower end of the scale for the experience, you now know how you want to cruise, but you will need to cost this up to see if you can afford the level you want.
You appear to have purchased a budget training course with an expection of a luxury cruise.
In real life bad weather comes unannounced, and how you deal with it is more important than how successful you are at dodging it, you will be caught out no matter what you do. Once you realise you can deal with it and what makes life easier and what does not, your sailing will be safer.
Did your partner read up respecting the theoretical points of sailing first ? A practical course should really build on a theoretical knowledge base to be of most use, you can then observe what is going on knowing why it is being done, leaving you open to ask targetted questions.
Mold and boats, well it happens I am afraid. If they provided the latest Holly Hensen gear, we both know a lot of it would be "liberated", pushing the cost up further. The fact that you have not already got your own sailing gear indicates you are trying to see if sailing is for you, hopefully you have learned that you will need to spend a bit to get the appropriate gear, and good breathable stuff is a must.
Re the breakfast, frying up is possible but tricky, maybe for insurance purposes they have been told not to do it.
This may have put you off sailing, which would be a shame as it is a wonderful passtime, but hopefully you can learn some lessons from this.
1. Luxury sailing is not cheap, there are mediteranian cruises available but the cost will be a lot more that you paid for this experience.
2. You have probably seen the lower end of the scale for the experience, you now know how you want to cruise, but you will need to cost this up to see if you can afford the level you want.
sailing86
New member
I have a really burning question...
Was it tesco stripy or was it tesco finest? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif "The food was rationed" and I think quite rightly too! You would only moan if there wasnt anything. By the way, when did you get the chocolates? Was it when it was really [--word removed--] on deck?
Did you offer to/do any of the cooking? It is in the 'competant crew'.
You said "Our skipper didn’t change any plans to suit the weather conditions.". As someone else mentioned...you were on a calm weak, coping with bad weather (seasickness) is in the comp crew also!
"The comfort and safety of the guests were not his priority"...I dont think that is quite true, do you?
I have no connection whatsoever with this company but it sounds like any other comercial sailing opperation I have seen.
Was it tesco stripy or was it tesco finest? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif "The food was rationed" and I think quite rightly too! You would only moan if there wasnt anything. By the way, when did you get the chocolates? Was it when it was really [--word removed--] on deck?
Did you offer to/do any of the cooking? It is in the 'competant crew'.
You said "Our skipper didn’t change any plans to suit the weather conditions.". As someone else mentioned...you were on a calm weak, coping with bad weather (seasickness) is in the comp crew also!
"The comfort and safety of the guests were not his priority"...I dont think that is quite true, do you?
I have no connection whatsoever with this company but it sounds like any other comercial sailing opperation I have seen.
boggybrn
New member
I'm surprised at everyone weighing in and defending Moonfleet. I'm sure RYA training courses don't have to be like that.
I have done two RYA courses. One with a well known Solent based sailing School which was very much like the experience described here. The food was terrible the boat filthy and there were definitely moments when the instructor let things get far more out of control than anyone was comfortable with.
The other course was with BOSS and was excellent. The boat was an old and well used Westerly Fulmar, but was clean and everything worked. The food was much better, and the instructor kept things well under control - even in heavier weather than experienced on the other course.
I have done two RYA courses. One with a well known Solent based sailing School which was very much like the experience described here. The food was terrible the boat filthy and there were definitely moments when the instructor let things get far more out of control than anyone was comfortable with.
The other course was with BOSS and was excellent. The boat was an old and well used Westerly Fulmar, but was clean and everything worked. The food was much better, and the instructor kept things well under control - even in heavier weather than experienced on the other course.
l'escargot
New member
I used to have a provisioning list for the Sunsail boats out of Port Solent - it was all "Happy Shopper". I think it worked on the principle that if you offered crappy food it kept the price down, people tended to eat ashore and it saved wear and tear on the galley - there were no makings of a full english either.
DavenHelen
New member
Been with a Falmouth based RYA school, Cornish Cruising on three occasions and have been provided with enough, quality food to eat on board all the time if we really wanted to. Part of the experience is allowing "guests" to cook if they wanted to give it a go.
I think the main factor in having a good time or not is the Skipper. In my sessions with this school I have had two very different skippers with different approaches but at no time did I feel they were there for their own benefit. They both went out of their way to make sure we understand what was going on and had all the correct equipment.
It would be interesting to understand the difference in costs to see if it was a cheap option.
I think the main factor in having a good time or not is the Skipper. In my sessions with this school I have had two very different skippers with different approaches but at no time did I feel they were there for their own benefit. They both went out of their way to make sure we understand what was going on and had all the correct equipment.
It would be interesting to understand the difference in costs to see if it was a cheap option.
DRANNIE
New member
I think Carol's expectations might have been a bit hopeful but I am very surprised at the blind support for moonfleet.
This is my view. This is a service industry which means - dirty boat, damp manky oillies, uncomunicative and sullen skipper and out a diet of fray bentos is unacceptable. Lumpy weather and tough sailing, mucking in with cleaning and cooking (including making bacon butties in the morning) should be expected.
I had a bad experience with a solent based school. With a similar and probably more aggressive skipper. We sorted it out with the school afterwards and they were very very good. I also learnt that if the skipper has the attitude of an angry pitbull and I am ineffect paying to fund him being a complete w%nker to me and my wife for 24 hours, he can work out how is going to get his 40ft boat back from cherbs in a F7-8 on his own. I'll be on the ferry.
This is my view. This is a service industry which means - dirty boat, damp manky oillies, uncomunicative and sullen skipper and out a diet of fray bentos is unacceptable. Lumpy weather and tough sailing, mucking in with cleaning and cooking (including making bacon butties in the morning) should be expected.
I had a bad experience with a solent based school. With a similar and probably more aggressive skipper. We sorted it out with the school afterwards and they were very very good. I also learnt that if the skipper has the attitude of an angry pitbull and I am ineffect paying to fund him being a complete w%nker to me and my wife for 24 hours, he can work out how is going to get his 40ft boat back from cherbs in a F7-8 on his own. I'll be on the ferry.
zaragozo
New member
As a novice and recent attendee at a SW based sailing school I'm tending towards Carol. Any unpleasant experience can go a long way to put folk off sailing from day one, which is bad news for the industry if nothing else. It is my view that the key thing in the instructor/client relationship is that the instructor should be first and foremost an inspirational teacher with appropriate 'people' skills. Sailing techniques etc and the right qualifications should be a given. It seems to me that there are a not an inconsiderable number of grumpy old salts who can bore for England on why paper charts are the only way of navigating, bang on about their heroic heavy weather deliveries and yet can get work as accredited sailing instructors. They can shout a lot as well.
As for the conditions aboard a school boat, surely it's pretty obvious if you are warm, dry, well-fed and can use a toilet (oops, heads) that doesn't stink, then everybody will be happier (even the instructor) and will benefit more from the course and, even, return for more....
As for the conditions aboard a school boat, surely it's pretty obvious if you are warm, dry, well-fed and can use a toilet (oops, heads) that doesn't stink, then everybody will be happier (even the instructor) and will benefit more from the course and, even, return for more....
whipper_snapper
New member
Many here have been on both sides of this kind of situation. We have seen skippers from hell and clients from hell. We don’t know what really happened, but when I see comments like
we were issued with life jackets – many of which had mould stains on and were frayed around the edges
First morning breakfast – toast and cereal – nowhere in sight was there any traditional English breakfast.
There wasn’t even any water on offer except water out of the tank.
Then I suspect that I would not like to have these people as fellow pupils or as clients.
I had one really bad experience with a client who simply failed to understand what was going on around him and spent the whole week telling everyone else that they were being exploited by an evil sailing school. He really believed it, and he ruined everyone’s week, especially his own.
we were issued with life jackets – many of which had mould stains on and were frayed around the edges
First morning breakfast – toast and cereal – nowhere in sight was there any traditional English breakfast.
There wasn’t even any water on offer except water out of the tank.
Then I suspect that I would not like to have these people as fellow pupils or as clients.
I had one really bad experience with a client who simply failed to understand what was going on around him and spent the whole week telling everyone else that they were being exploited by an evil sailing school. He really believed it, and he ruined everyone’s week, especially his own.
snowleopard
Active member
"There wasn’t even any water on offer except water out of the tank"
What did you expect - Perrier? Boats have to carry their own water with them and to that end have tanks installed. When we sail, that's what we drink.
What did you expect - Perrier? Boats have to carry their own water with them and to that end have tanks installed. When we sail, that's what we drink.
fireball
New member
Rather depends on the quality of water from the tank doesn't it .... we have cheapo bottled water for those who want just water - the tank water isn't that nice .... but fine for boiling kettles or just about squash.... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Robih
Well-known member
we don't; we carry bottled water for drinking.
rob
rob
StugeronSteve
New member
We drink bottled, but our tank doesn't have the continuous throughput of fresh water that a school boat gets.
Danny Jo
New member
Cruise from Hell? Or the poison that is meat for those who have tasted worse?
If the purpose of this thread was to put others off booking courses with Moonfleet, it seems to have backfired, and the company is picking up some nice free publicity. Having a look at their website, I read: [ QUOTE ]
Conditions of booking
RYA Practical Courses - PRICES ARE PER PERSON AND INCLUSIVE OF MOORING FEES, WATERPROOFS, ACCOMMODATION ON YACHT, FUEL, GAS, SAFETY EQUIPMENT, BREAKFAST, LUNCH AND DINNER (EVENING MEALS ARE PROVIDED ON 3 EVENINGS ON A FIVE DAY COURSE).
[/ QUOTE ] This does not need much translating to get it into plain English, but I'll have a go:
". . . inclusive of mooring fees . . . fuel, gas . . ." = what you pay for this course covers only the bare essentials.
". . . inclusive of . . . waterproofs . . ." = if you don't want to wear hand-me-downs, bring your own waterproofs.
". . . breakfast, lunch . . . " = who said 'cooked breakfast'? And if you are into snacks, bring your own.
". . . and dinner (evening meals are provided on three evenings on a 5-day course)" = get down here before the chippy closes, and bring your own booze.
I guess that Moonfleet are happy enough to live with this thread, because it hasn't been pulled like most previous name-and-shame rants. If so I applaud them.
If the purpose of this thread was to put others off booking courses with Moonfleet, it seems to have backfired, and the company is picking up some nice free publicity. Having a look at their website, I read: [ QUOTE ]
Conditions of booking
RYA Practical Courses - PRICES ARE PER PERSON AND INCLUSIVE OF MOORING FEES, WATERPROOFS, ACCOMMODATION ON YACHT, FUEL, GAS, SAFETY EQUIPMENT, BREAKFAST, LUNCH AND DINNER (EVENING MEALS ARE PROVIDED ON 3 EVENINGS ON A FIVE DAY COURSE).
[/ QUOTE ] This does not need much translating to get it into plain English, but I'll have a go:
". . . inclusive of mooring fees . . . fuel, gas . . ." = what you pay for this course covers only the bare essentials.
". . . inclusive of . . . waterproofs . . ." = if you don't want to wear hand-me-downs, bring your own waterproofs.
". . . breakfast, lunch . . . " = who said 'cooked breakfast'? And if you are into snacks, bring your own.
". . . and dinner (evening meals are provided on three evenings on a 5-day course)" = get down here before the chippy closes, and bring your own booze.
I guess that Moonfleet are happy enough to live with this thread, because it hasn't been pulled like most previous name-and-shame rants. If so I applaud them.
CarolSheppard
New member
We chose Moonfleet Sailing as it was a local business to where we live and not because of price. The cruise was not what I call cheap and was infact more expensive than some based around the Solent.
I have sailed before and been around boats for some years. When I pay for a service, I expect a service regardless of what industry it is in. What makes yachting so special that people think they have an excuse not to deliver decent customer service? And why do so many of you seem to accept it?
I do not think that my expectations are exceedingly high. I expected a safe boat, decent kit to use, a competent pleasant skipper/instructor and food that was acceptable. Unfortunately, Moonfleet fell very short of this.
I have sailed before and been around boats for some years. When I pay for a service, I expect a service regardless of what industry it is in. What makes yachting so special that people think they have an excuse not to deliver decent customer service? And why do so many of you seem to accept it?
I do not think that my expectations are exceedingly high. I expected a safe boat, decent kit to use, a competent pleasant skipper/instructor and food that was acceptable. Unfortunately, Moonfleet fell very short of this.
longjohnsilver
Well-known member
So I ask again whether you've contacted Moonfleet with your complaints, and if so, what was their response? And what did the rest of the crew think of Moonfleet?
Most stories have 2 sides, not disputing what you say but I would like to hear what Moonfleets response is.
Most stories have 2 sides, not disputing what you say but I would like to hear what Moonfleets response is.
curve
New member
[ QUOTE ]
I used to have a provisioning list for the Sunsail boats out of Port Solent - it was all "Happy Shopper". I think it worked on the principle that if you offered crappy food it kept the price down, people tended to eat ashore and it saved wear and tear on the galley - there were no makings of a full english either.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've been with Sunsail and just to put it midly the pasties are legendary and are quite an acquired taste.
However, we did have our fair share of proper cooked breakfasts.
And to top it all the skipper did a fantastic job!
The only downer was this prat in the crew who spent the whole week getting up people's noses and generally being obnoxious.
I used to have a provisioning list for the Sunsail boats out of Port Solent - it was all "Happy Shopper". I think it worked on the principle that if you offered crappy food it kept the price down, people tended to eat ashore and it saved wear and tear on the galley - there were no makings of a full english either.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've been with Sunsail and just to put it midly the pasties are legendary and are quite an acquired taste.
However, we did have our fair share of proper cooked breakfasts.
And to top it all the skipper did a fantastic job!
The only downer was this prat in the crew who spent the whole week getting up people's noses and generally being obnoxious.
Seven Spades
Well-known member
I went with Devon sailing some years ago and a good selection of fresh food was provided for the week. Each day a different person had to take their turn and cook. Water was from the tank and tainted, I never drank it!
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
You came back alive didnt you??
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