pvb
Well-known member
I'm afraid you may be confusing "tonnage" with "displacement". Tonnage is indeed related to volume. Displacement is very definitely related to weight.
Moody 376 vs bavaria 37
- Thread starter gasdave
- Start date
I'm afraid you may be confusing "tonnage" with "displacement". Tonnage is indeed related to volume. Displacement is very definitely related to weight.
TimBennet
New member
I'm afraid your rudimentary knowledge of naval architecture predates Archimedes. In the 2200 years since his experiments in the bath, we've all known that displacement and weight are identical.
"Displacement Volume' is rarely quoted, although used in some calculations, but is anyhow the same figure but expressed as the volume of sea water that will weigh the same.
AndrewfromFal
Active member
Ah, all is now clear. Thanks
GrahamM376
New member
I don't know which is correct, there are variations depending on what one reads, even between Moody sales leaflets and dimensions quoted by Moody brokerage. The figure I gave is taken is from Marine Projects works documents released along with drawings. I wonder if the scheel keel, being shallower, has to be heavier? The only other weight indication I have is from a hoist driver who said we were about 9 tonnes which, with the amount of gear we have on board + full tanks, would sound about right. RT is 13.43 but doesn't help. I've emailed our surveyor to see if he knows as he's involved with coding boats and there may be accurate details he has access to.
Tranona
Well-known member
Similar confusion between "light weight" and "lightly built". Many of the advocates for older boats here equate "weight" with "strength" - therefore the heavier the boat the better and stronger built it is. But who needs 18mm thick cockpit coamings, or why the concern about the transom of a Bavaria being thin when its only purpose is to keep water out (not take rigging loads) to take 2 examples used previously.
I could list all the poor construction points of the Moodys and Westerlys I saw when looking before deciding to go the other way. Just a few examples. Mild steel fuel tanks, inaccessible toilet plumbing, poor engine access, droopy headlinings, leaking chainplates, leaking hatches and windows, rotting mast compression blocks, osmosis - all of these you will find reported on owners websites as well, so not just my imagination. Based on my experience the Bavaria list is much shorter. Poor stanchion bases, poor gas installation, rubbish cooker, leaky hatches replaced under warranty, cheap upholstery. That's about it.
Tranona
Well-known member
Your 9 tonnes sounds about right. The Bavaria figures I quoted earlier for my boat suggest 1.5tonnes for cruising gear. 4-500kg for fuel and water alone.
The discrepancies noted on basic data depending on source is, as I suggested earlier typical for older boats where the initial calculations were often not accurate and the boats were not necessarily built to close tolerances, or even to the designer's specification. Much of the construction was left to the builder to decide compared to today when materials and processes are much more tightly controlled.
AndrewfromFal
Active member
Amen to that; long ago in another life (teenage years) I spent my summers maintaining Charter Boats for a living. Anyone who generalises about boats being built better in the old days really doesn't have a scooby. - When I say maintaining; wholesale rebuilding is more apt in some cases (which is an interesting proposition when you have to turnaround a boat in 8 hours). As you observe a lot of boats were heavily built although in places where it was of little use; and the bits of the boat weren't stuck together all that well.
There were few mainstream manufacturers that came out of it well although the guys I worked with and I had a fondness for Gibseas of that period which seemed to be well put together, relatively simple and everything was accessible and easy to fix.
jmuir1
Member
I had a look at this boat twice, once up near oban and again in Rhu. It need a lot of work and ££££ so walked away after second look. I would new very careful and work out total cost, sails rigging, interior upgrade. It hasn't been looked after well and there maybe be more costs which are not so obvious. I looked and numerous moody 376 as liked the boats but the good ones were always too expensive for by budget and ended up with a Baveria 38 ocean more modern, more room and similar shape to the moody....but cheaper and newer. May have when for moody 376 in good condition but was things about possible resell value down the line.
silver-fox
Active member
Tranona
Well-known member
An interesting update. Can anybody decipher it?
All makes sense apart from the last sentence.
He found Moody 376 are mostly worn out and overpriced. So he bought a Bavaria Ocean 38 - far better and newer boat.
Makes sense if you read the whole thread as it reflects what others have found, even if not everybody will agree that the Bavaria is a better boat.
Sailfree
Well-known member
Ultimately its the best boat for the money that gets bought and that comment applies to the GT35 thread as well.
I do find myself in a funny position though as I smile when I read posters that extol the virtues of 60's design incorporated in a new boat that they will never buy yet understand those that extol the virtues of 10yr old AWB's that just were a bit better built before the latest economies of build (to keep the price competitive) were introduced!
jmuir1
Member
Your right last bit of my post got a bit garbled....it was meant to say that I was looking at resell value further down the line and felt the newer bavaria 38 ocean would be a better return if I sold it say 10years on compared to older moody 376.....must have been that second glass of wine ;-)
silver-fox
Active member
Well I raise a glass to you and hope you enjoy many happy years with your boat. If you have half as much fun as I do you will be a very happy man.
Your decision is made now and you can step out of the commercial and into sailing - oh and maintenance that essential ingredient that we all love so much!
Your decision is made now and you can step out of the commercial and into sailing - oh and maintenance that essential ingredient that we all love so much!
GrahamM376
New member
Not if this Bavaria is typical, sold by some German friends 3 years ago for 69,000 euro, on the market again now for 43,000! I don't think the Moody will lose 63% in the next 3 years. http://www.yachtgrot.com/featured-home-page/yacht-bavaria-37-raya-for-sale.html
The only point in your post that I would disagree with is that the Bav and Moody are not similar shapes, underwater hulls are very different.
EDIT I made a mistake, just noticed the current selling price is in £ not euro (54,250) so price drop not as large as quoted, nearer 21%
Last edited:
Sailfree
Well-known member
This post may be misleading as secondhand prices depend far more on market conditions. My understanding is that sales of both new boats and secondhand boats are much depressed at present. It may be that shortage of say good 2013 boats secondhand in say 2016/7 will result in them fetching a premium.
Halberg Rassy have made long waiting lists a feature of their business model and enable secondhand prices to be as high as possible.
Just_sayin'
Well-known member
Wow. You have stamina. STILL rattling on I see. Is this what its really like to be retired?
Well we gave up trying to find anyone who wished they'd bought a Moody. 9 ports, 3 countries, personne, nadie, ninguém.
Hey ho.
However every yotty we met did say how much they wished they'd bought our power boats.
GrahamM376
New member
Obviously most boat prices are depressed due to the economic climate, it's a buyers market. Much of course depends on the numbers of a particular model for sale but the likes of HR, Malo etc. have always fetched a premium. Very few ever cover what we've spent over the years, even in good times.
Tranona
Well-known member
The Bavaria 38 Ocean is a very different boat from the one in the advert (which is the same as mine). £50k is the current asking prices for a 37 (which is actually an older 35 stretched a bit) because they were built for the charter market and were the first model out of the mass production facility so were very cheap boats when new.
On paper the Ocean is almost identical to your boat in terms of displacement and hull shape, but the keel is more modern and deeper and it has a spade rudder. It was built specifically for the same market as your boat with a nod to being a "cheap" HR. So far they have held their value very well - and if I was in a position to go cruising again it would be top of my list.
Anyway the central issue is that many 37/376 are now very tired and even at £40k asking prices people are walking away because of the amount of work needed to bring them back to the sort of condition you expect for that sort of boat. Obviously there are some that are not in that condition, but owners are either not selling or they don't stay on the market long. If you look on Yachtworld there are many for sale at the lower price levels and are not shifting. Other than the degree of decay and the relative prices, no different from when I was looking 10 years ago, which is why I stayed with my Bavaria, and I couldn't afford to buy a 38 Ocean at the time.
pvb
Well-known member
I don't know which AWBs you're thinking of, but some are doing rather the opposite. The current generation of Farr-designed Bavaria Cruisers are considerably heavier than the boats they replace, and take more labour to assemble. In a few years' time, they'll be more sought-after than the previous generation boats.
Tranona
Well-known member
Would not say necessarily better built, but certainly different philosophy. If you compare my old 37 with yours, the major change (apart from a 10% or so increase in D/LWL) is that mine was intended to be "flexible" in that the bulkheads are not so structural being only glassed to the hull, not the deck. The fore an aft berth fronts, shelves etc are also not structural. So the boat moves a lot. The door frames float in the bulkheads and also move underway. The hull "works" in a seaway - you can see the gaps either side of the drop down transom seat opening and closing! Despite all this everything has held together - but it is not a sharp boat to sail, and tolerant of lousy helms like me.
I understand the brief to Farr was to produce a stiffer hull and deck structure as a basis for improving sailing performance, and from what i have seen they seem to have achieved that.
