Moody 37/376 buying advice and alternatives?

[ashtead]

One negative thing about going bigger if marina dwellers is the often very big increases in berthing costs. Some price bands jump from 11.99m - 14.99m.

I always wondered if this differential was listed anywhere though? I know PBO does publish annual reviews of rates however this relates to uk so interested in sources of evidence for those on rote to med say ? More importantly is there a list of marinas which does discriminate in this fashion?

 

[GrahamM376]

I always wondered if this differential was listed anywhere though? I know PBO does publish annual reviews of rates however this relates to uk so interested in sources of evidence for those on rote to med say ? More importantly is there a list of marinas which does discriminate in this fashion?

We've come across it in various places but not aware of any published data. Just had a look at Lagos, one of our local marinas. 376 would be €5593 & the 44 €7300 p.a. and both need 23% tax adding. Many go for the 9 months contract which excludes high season and sail somewhere cheaper for a while. Glad we're on our own mooring which has saved us so far around €60,000 over the 10 years we've been there.

 

[ashtead]

Graham
Many thanks . Interested to see how these charges compare with those found in Gosport as longer term plans might include a more southerly berth if time permits hence the interest in finding a way of looking to see costs of being based in sunnier lands .

 

[GrahamM376]

Graham
Many thanks . Interested to see how these charges compare with those found in Gosport as longer term plans might include a more southerly berth if time permits hence the interest in finding a way of looking to see costs of being based in sunnier lands .

The Algarve marinas are expensive compared with the west coast (except Cascais) but SW Spain and Gib/LaLinea are far cheaper. Plenty of anchorages around so marinas can be avoided and many Portuguese boatyards (unlike most Spanish) allow living on board and doing your own maintenance. Flights down are pretty cheap outside school hols. Cost of living and eating out also far cheaper than UK which can be factored in.

 

[Heckler]

The Algarve marinas are expensive compared with the west coast (except Cascais) but SW Spain and Gib/LaLinea are far cheaper. Plenty of anchorages around so marinas can be avoided and many Portuguese boatyards (unlike most Spanish) allow living on board and doing your own maintenance. Flights down are pretty cheap outside school hols. Cost of living and eating out also far cheaper than UK which can be factored in.

Portugal?
Stu

 

[RupertW]

The Algarve marinas are expensive compared with the west coast (except Cascais) but SW Spain and Gib/LaLinea are far cheaper. Plenty of anchorages around so marinas can be avoided and many Portuguese boatyards (unlike most Spanish) allow living on board and doing your own maintenance. Flights down are pretty cheap outside school hols. Cost of living and eating out also far cheaper than UK which can be factored in.

We are planning to move from Croatia to Spain next year but a little alarmed at the idea of not being allowed to do our own maintenance there. Is that only things like antifouling or would they stop things like refitting windlasses or clutches too ? I know my question sounds daft but I haven't encountered no maintenance rules before.

 

[Tranona]

Graham
Many thanks . Interested to see how these charges compare with those found in Gosport as longer term plans might include a more southerly berth if time permits hence the interest in finding a way of looking to see costs of being based in sunnier lands .

You will find that marina prices and policies vary enormously across Europe reflecting the varying supply and demand. It is generally true, though that once you go above 12m you find jumps in rates simply because there is a shortage of this size berth as many of the older marinas had mainly berths under that size, but new boat sales have been mainly in sizes above that for the last few years. So, tight supply and growing demand equals price increases!. You will also find the basis of charging varies as do the terms of contract. Some charge per M , some by berth size and some by area (L*B). duration of contracts and discounts tend to reflect local demand and are of course aimed at maximising usage and revenue of the berths.

It is fair to say that if you are a marina dweller, particularly in the west of the med a Moody 44 will be substantially more expensive to moor than a 37. Not surprisingly the under 12m boats are popular with the budget constrained cruiser as they are a good compromise, mostly offering adequate accommodation and good voyaging capability. On the other hand if you move to the eastern Med and spend most of the time on the hook or against a local quay a bigger boat has a lot to commend it.

 

[GrahamM376]

Portugal?
Stu

Lisbon now, Bruce's next week.

 

[Pasarell]

I keep my Moody 44 in Lefkas Marina, Greece. Price for a 12 month berth this year was 5300 euros including VAT and after discounts for paying up front and being a CA or RYA member. Price includes showers but water and electricity are extra. Lefkas is probably the most expensive in the Ionian but has good position and facilities and a good liveaboard community. The few other marinas around are a lot cheaper as far as I know. Many liveaboards come into the marina for the winter but then head out at the beginning of April as summer rates kick in

 

[GrahamM376]

Is that only things like antifouling or would they stop things like refitting windlasses or clutches too ? I know my question sounds daft but I haven't encountered no maintenance rules before.

I'm sure others have more personal experience but, when we were looking for winter alternatives, the impression was "NO DIY maintenance or sleeping on board" in many Spanish yards, although I'm told a few do allow it. Just where the line is drawn, I don't know.

 

[Kelpie]

The post from siwhi illustrates why for longer distances a 44cc makes a great choice if within budget and of course at this length some of the failings highlighted by others in the 376 eg short bow cabin tend to be resolved. If you can face an older vessel and additional running costs etc then the choices offered by other makes in cc versions at this length offer a whole range of possibilities and the lines of such cc versions often seem more attractive You might however feel 44 is a daunting length for your chosen cruising area but as ever all down to your plans and funding but might be worth a look at benefits offered in terms of extra storage.

A 44 is going to be out of budget, unless it's decidedly old and knackered. Even a good 37 is likely a bit of a stretch, and I'm hoping that if prices continue to fall as they currently appear to be doing, in three or four years time that will allow us to start putting in cheeky offers until someone bites.

We'd be happy to put up with an older boat so long as it's well found and not carrying any maintenance timebombs, but I suppose that things like deck leaks tend to just get worse as a boat ages. Our current boat dates from 1970 and whilst she has had new instruments, engine, prop, and sails, I do sometimes wonder about fundamentals like chainplates or rudder tube.

 

[Gelfie]

Check out the southerly owners web site and you will see all about these keels and there ancillaries. Massively built and give you a large metal plate to dry out on rather than soft fibreglass. Change the rope pennants every 5 years and keep your eye on the hydraulic fluid and that's about it.

 

[Sybarite]

Playing a long game here and considering what the next boat, in a few years time, might look like. Usage would be a few years of bluewater cruising with a young family.
Really like the look of the various Moodys, especially the 37 and 376. Moderate draft, acceptable performance. Two heads, decent cockpit locker space, passage cabin/workshop, excellent aft cabin. The way prices are going I would expect to get a good example in budget when the time comes.

I'm well aware of the folly of getting attached to a particular make/model so wondering what others to put on the shortlist. And also any particular issues with the Moody that I should be aware of?

Hallberg Rassy 352?

 

[GrahamM376]

Hallberg Rassy 352?

Nice boats but nothing like the interior volume of the Moody/Westerlies and newer boats. Also have teak decks which aren't user friendly in hot climates and very expensive to replace.

 

[Tranona]

Hallberg Rassy 352?

OK if you are a hobbit - and much more expensive than a Moody both to buy and keep running.

 

[Kelpie]

Yes that was my thought too- a lot of compromises on the HR352. Teak decks, single heads, rudder tube bisecting the aft cabin berth, lack of windows down below... Might be acceptable if the price was right, but it almost certainly ain't! Encapsulated keel is a plus though, and the rudder looks good and strong.

 

[Kelpie]

So, we've now had a look around a M346, with the inevitable problem that SWMBO is rather smitten
It's been interesting to compare what I was able to learn online vs my actual impressions. I'd expected to find that the cockpit and saloon would both feel a bit cramped ("centre cockpits don't work under 40ft!") but these were both pleasantly spacious. Likewise access from cockpit to the deck appeared good, although perhaps it's a different story when you're heeled.
On the other hand, I was disappointed by just how tight the 'walk through' was for headroom- and we aren't tall people! Probably the most annoying thing was that half the galley worktop space is located in this area, making it difficult to actually use for food preparation. On the layout plan of course the galley looks great. Perhaps this becomes less of a problem on a larger boat, like a 376?

On deck, the baby stay makes an otherwise spacious foredeck much more cramped than I had expected- obvious in hindsight of course. I had assumed that a decent sized dinghy could be stowed here but in fact there is less space to do this than on my current, smaller, boat, which has forward lowers.
One final niggle... T-terminals throughout, which I'm slightly suspicious of- but these are no doubt part and parcel of most boats build from mid 80s onwards.

 

[Tranona]

The 346 crams a lot in and the passageway issue is the cost of having access to the aft cabin without going through the cockpit. That is better on the 37 and there is a berth in the passage aft of the chart table, so the galley is on the other side of the boat aft of the saloon seating. Much more room and headroom in that area. The difference illustrates clearly the benefits of extra length, particularly when all that extra 3' is in the accommodation (plus of course extra width and height).

The big negative of the centre cockpit is when you have a bimini and spray hood - particularly if like me you are a normal sized over 6' and 15 stone! It is very cramped and claustrophobic and the main thing that put me off for hot climate use.

BTW this months PBO has a review of just these sorts of boats, or rather boats in the size range for liveaboard or long term cruising. Next months will specifically cover Moodys.

 

[GrahamM376]

So, we've now had a look around a M346, with the inevitable problem that SWMBO is rather smitten .

We were also smitten, after the Berwick it seemed great but, we soon learned differently. Over 4 years of ownership, we did mostly longish trips, delivery from Hamble to Conwy and then each of the next 3 years Conwy down to France and Channel Isles.

The galley and walkway are a pain having to stoop all the time and, the directional stability under sail is very poor. Despite chucking the wheel pilot and installing inboard linear drive on the quadrant, with the slightest change of wind speed it would alter course quicker than the pilot could cope and, looking astern, the wake was more often than not a lazy S. When pressed hard, had to hand steer.

OTOH, the 376 steers like it's on rails can let the pilot do 95% of the steering. Accommodation is better, particularly the galley and, with 2 heads it's better when guests aboard. Suggest you read the PBO/YM "used boat tests", the one for the 346 says something along the lines of "it would alter course for no apparent reason".

 

[GrahamM376]

The big negative of the centre cockpit is when you have a bimini and spray hood - particularly if like me you are a normal sized over 6' and 15 stone! It is very cramped and claustrophobic and the main thing that put me off for hot climate use.

I and I suggest most centre cockpit boat owners would disagree. I don't find it cramped or claustrophobic and I'm only 2" shorter than you but 3 stone lighter