MOBO's on a roll

[duncan]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

too close is I think most peoples biggest peeve.
last weekend...............

and not I am not overtaking him - I am at anchor about a mile offshore and with a black ball up too! Could almost reach out adn touch the boom; certainly could have contacted it with a fishing rod.

Also I would highlight that most mobo's can be handled at around 4-5 knots; it's below that, and especially with current and wind, that it can become difficult due to a lack of keel and often no rudder/s either. In contrast a fin keeled yacht is as precise as a race car at slow speed (ahead)! However I agree the principle being put forward re 20 knots.

 

[landaftaf]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

is that rain - cant call you a fair weather sailor huh

 

[duncan]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

yep - all day drizzle and a fresh breeze made for a pretty miserable day were it not for the fish! 25 black bream around 2lb (8 kept) and a nice ray of 9lb.

 

[Mike21]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

If I was overtaking you when you were tacking, why would you then need to tack accross my bows to get out of danger rather than just change course to travel parallel to me until I was clear ? ( presuming the course I was on had left you sufficient depth )
Colregs actually allow you to slow down or stop if necessary, they were never designed round what is most convenient for you.

 

[l'escargot]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

Because I would then be bow to the wind with no manouvreability - a bit like you having to stop and switch your engine(s) off until another boat had passed you and not being allowed to switch them on again until the wind alone had given you a couple of knots through the water.

A sailing boat stopped and bow to the wind has virtually no control over which way it is subsequently blown - it could be blown out of the channel and aground or could be blown the other way broadside on in the channel and become a greater hazard. It actually has to build up speed again before it has steerage or control - it is entirely dependant on the wind.

 

[Mike21]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

But it seems that in a channel, even if I kept as far to starboard as possible and you were at the port marker you still require to tack across my bows, when you could tack earlier with out risk of collision, so it's convenience not necessity, also yachts are very manouvarable as long as they are making some way, you could also heave too if you felt continuing on your present course was not advisable, although it probably wouldn't be convenient.

 

[l'escargot]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

I think you understand the process of "heaving to" even less than you do "tacking". /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hopefully yes, I would be able to anticipate a tack so that you wouldn't be "inconvenienced" by having to be aware of what is happening about you and that would be my intention.

I would even aim to go round behind you if you did something stupid or were just plain b loody-minded. Unfortunately though, with the best will in the world, other people sometimes act in an unpredictable way and leave few options - that is when it is argued out by rules.

Ultimately, in some circumstances, you are required to give way to a sailing vessel. Why do you seem to resent this so much?

 

[Mike21]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

Know exactly what heaving too is and what's involved as I've practised it.
Also seems a fairly typical response to think that a moboer has no idea about sailing
What you seem to be advocating is trying to use the rules so as you are not inconvenienced, there is no requirement use the full channel to be able to make way, especially when it's busy, it's poor seamanship or sheer arrogance, normally I would watch and time my approach or passing manouver, though this approach seem to upset some who decide to do their first tack or to change when they tack.

I resent being forced into evasive action to prevent a close quarter collision situation were none had existed before, because of the willfull action of the other vessel. This seem to be your contention that it's not your responsibilty, if you deliberately create a close quarter collision situation

 

[l'escargot]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

I think you are writing your answers and not reading my posts - do you want the five minute argument or the ten minute one.?

Heaving to is not a technique used in close quarters situations and you clearly do not understand it - if you have ever practised it in anything bigger than a dinghy, in a narrow channel and just to let another boat go by, you were being silly and you don't know as much about sailing as you think.

I have not said I would use the full channel to maneouvre. I have said I would tack so as not to inconvenience you. I have even said I would not stand on and go round the back of you.

Short of taking my boat out of the water on the days you want to be afloat, I can't really see what else I can do.

I hope you are different on your boat than you are on the internet, otherwise you must leave carnage behind you.

Anyway, I'm of to bed now - going sailing tomorrow - look out for me tacking up the Beaulieu River and I will keep an eye out for a boat on rails./forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

This seem to be your contention that it's not your responsibilty, if you deliberately create a close quarter collision situation

I think that poster has views which are the exception compared to the vast majority of experienced yachtsmen. Unfortunately their reputation of poor regard for other users of the sea rubs off on the rest of us.

Most yachtsmen, even if forced to sail in confined waters, would not willingly create close quarters situations by tacking in front of other vessels. Those that do are just poor and lazy sailors that expect everyone else to anticipate their actions rather than they themselves having to bother themselves about the passage of others.

John

 

[l'escargot]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

Hi John, see NZ has woken up and you want add things to my post that aren't there as well. Come on at least read the thread before you post.

You never have forgiven me for pointing out your claim of not to know anything about alternators have you? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Have a nice day.

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

You never have forgiven me for pointing out your claim of not to know anything about alternators have you?

Err, did I say that? You will have to point me to the incident, as it is one I do not recall among the more than 3,600 posts I have made on these forums /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif.

John

 

[Mike21]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

Would agree with you that most yachtmen would not deliberately create a situation, seems to be a peculiarity at weekends in the solent and poole harbour.
Had a friend who was a very experienced yachtman who worked for poole harbour master, who had problems with a few who expected even large ferries inc the chain link ferry to get out of their way as they were sailing

 

[landaftaf]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

what happens when you walk through a busy shopping precinct - do you demand ppl give way to you ?
do you get angry when you keep on having to 'give way'
do you go purple when you are nudged ?
does this equate to your behaviour on the water ?

 

[Mike21]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

[ QUOTE ]
what happens when you walk through a busy shopping precinct - do you demand ppl give way to you ?
do you get angry when you keep on having to 'give way'
do you go purple when you are nudged ?
does this equate to your behaviour on the water ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry I'm not that type of raggie , in fact I'm not a raggie at all /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[landaftaf]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

not aimed at you specifically you mike - aimed in the direction of all those who seem to get territorial about 'their piece of water' in front, both sides and behind them.

anyway, as you bring it up, why are you not a 'raggie', or has that other connotations to being of the sailing yacht fraternity ?

 

[Mike21]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

Not at all, rather enjoyed when I've had the opportunity to try to sail,, just find it rather boring when there is no wind.
In a lot of ways it would be great to be able to be both , but I have access to a motorcruiser, and it tends to suite my lifestyle better, so just have to be content with the odd dabble on the other side

 

[Bergman]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

Agree to a point but I think there is a wider problem.

Basically the rules were not made to fit the situation that exists in places like the River Hamble and probably most of the rest of the Solent on a sunny day.

With a sailing boat tacking up a narrow channel being overtaken by a power boat the situation becomes almost impossible. The sailing boat must either tack or run aground and cannot "hold his course"

Equally the motor boat suddenly finds that his solution to the overtaking manouvre has been changed without warning by the sailboats tack. But since there are several other boats now travelling faster than him he has become, unexpectedly the overtaken vessel and is in turn expected to hold his course - which will entail him hitting the sailboat.

A crude example perhaps but an attempt to illustrate how the rules fail to cope fully with a high density of traffic.

As for the solution - I don't know. Certainly the world isn't going to change to suit the needs of even so large a group as the Solent sailors. And why should it?

I'm afraid that you people down there are going to have to get your act together and find a way of getting along in the conditions that you (collectively) have created.

And make no mistake this is a Solent issue I've sailed on East Coast, West Coast Wales and Ireland and even Scotland and found no such problems.

 

[landaftaf]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

a minor point ..... if an overtaken vessel has too or needs too alter course then she is perfectly entitled to, and bollox to this keeping a stready course idea .... - the overtaking vessel has to bear this in mind before commencing her overtaking maneouver, this is partially why there is a proceedure laid down to 'ask' for agreement prior to overtaking.
so - if the overtaken vessel needs to deviate from her original base course there is nothing to stop her.

 

[Mike21]

Re: MOBO\'s on a roll

But any course change should not then create another close quarter situation, rule 8, I believe