MOB strategy for inexperienced crew

[Neeves]

Let go sheets guys and halyard. As you crash stop, it often falls on the foredeck anyway. Recover all lines obviously before starting engine.

I experimented with a friend on his Westerly Fulmar the effects of simply putting the helm hard over so bow swung into wind with the spinnaker up. It's a good brake! But you also risk......break.

We had a MOB - did exactly as you said and the spinnaker promptly fell into the water and under the bow - you forget inexperienced crew don't react with the speed necessary. You need to get the spinnaker down but you need to do it slowly or you are in all sorts of trouble - been there done that. Its the contradiction - you must get it down quickly, before the MOB disappears from sight, but you have to drop the spinnaker under control - or it takes 4 times as long. You need number to get the spinnaker down, you need someone on the helm and you need someone tasked to ignore the mayhem on the bow and watch the MOB. Much of this does not work with an inexperienced crew.

The answer is - don't raise a spinnaker with much of the crew inexperienced - and

Stay on the Boat.

Jonathan

Scenario was

I had a racing crew and 3 of them were on the boat. We were taking the wives out for a leisure sail. I had a new crew member and his wife. I decided to show the new crew member the lore of the spinnaker. I had one experienced crew member on the helm. I was on the foredeck with the new crew member. It was a beautiful day in HK but after a typhoon had passed through. Lovely blue seas, with pure white crests on the top - but biggish seas. Experienced wife was standing on cabin roof steadying the boom. We launched the spinnaker it filled with a reassuring crack - we accelerated down a wave, helmsman lost control, we gybed and crew member was swept cleanly off the cabin roof into the sea. Husband of MOB immediately dived over board (as husbands do) - I'm now left with one crew member of any use. I'd still on the foredeck - as I pass the mast going aft I trip the halyard. Forgetting that the man in the sea had been on the sheet. Tasked one wife to watch the 2 in the sea - she was promptly seasick ( and became another liability).

We got it all cleared up and returned to 2 persons in the water - the sea was a gorgeous blue colour - nothing in the water to be seen - except for the vivd white of the breaking crests against the deep blue of the seas.

We dropped the main and motored back, about 30 degrees of course to what we wanted - I was guessing - eventually saw them but we did get closer and picked them up.

A salutary lesson, or series of lessons. Chilling. This was before mobile phones and raising help would have been slow. Interesting the natural action of the husband made it all worse. If he had stayed on board we would have had the spinnaker down cleanly. You cannot anticipate what people might do in an emergency. Practicing does not take into account the adrenalin rush in the cold light of day nor the fact this is a leisure pursuit and the skipper is 'just' another mate - and you (or they) know best.

I should not have had the girl on the cabin roof - but it all seemed innocuous at the time. The husband should have stayed on the boat, I should not have dropped the spinnaker quite so quickly (and made sure the neophyte foredeck knew exactly what was expected of him).


I was very, very lucky - and I know it. Sends shiver down my spine - even now when I think about it. But I learnt


Stay on the Boat - otherwise you will die.


Jonathan

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

You would need to drop the main. Much safer and quicker motoring up head to wind. Main sheeted hard in. Can't expect novices to be subtle.

Mob with a simulated broken engine explores that. Top tip, approach on a close reach, spill and fill the sails as you head towards the casualty and slowly luff as you get close. Angles vary with winds speed and sailplan. Obviously for the more experienced......and on someone else's boat in heavier airs Have done this at just above drifting winds to a full 35 knots gusting more.

It's a great test of boat handling skills.

What you suggest is quite close to the method taught by the sailing associations in these islands, but the idea of luffing up is now frowned upon. When approaching an MOB/ mooring buoy/ pontoon on a close reach, spilling and filling, you are expected to be able to stop the boat at a pre-determined point without luffing up, the point being that your boat remains "under command", which would not be the case if you luffed up to the point where you were " in irons", being blown downwind at the mercy of the wind and having to get under way again and repeat the manoeuvre to approach your objective.
Being on a Close Reach, your mainsail will lie head to wind if the sheet is released, so you can slow down and stop, at will, or power up so that reduced speed does not cause you to be be blown off-target. On the other hand you still have the option to point up to a Close Hauled point of sail of you are making excessive leeway.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

A very interesting website. Although they apparently assume having some experienced-ish crew on deck, rather than a freaked-out non sailor..

It's UK Sails. It's about racing, primarily, so plenty of experienced crew in their examples, but the method could easily be used on short-handed boats. Incidentally, in a practice "MOB Day" I took part in, we found that a snatch block between the halyard and the Lifesling line made things easier when winching.

 

[Laser310]

It's UK Sails. It's about racing, primarily, so plenty of experienced crew in their examples, but the method could easily be used on short-handed boats. Incidentally, in a practice "MOB Day" I took part in, we found that a snatch block between the halyard and the Lifesling line made things easier when winching.

I am actually on one of the boats in those videos

we tried many different lifting techniques that day - the mid line with the spinnaker halyard worked best - but still occasionally had problems - practice, practice, practice...

As you can see, there was no wind at all..., so nothing was done under sail.

the video shows us lifting a bag of water, but we also lifted one of the crew few times.

the event was organized by the Storm Trysail Club - a US association for offshore sailors - kind of like RORC.., except without a clubhouse...

it happens that the local UK Sails guy is very active in the Storm Trysail club, and that's how the video ended up being posted by UK sails.

 

[Stemar]

Stay on the Boat - otherwise you will die.

Someone on here many years ago had this as part of his safety briefing:

"This is a safety line. Clip on and it will help you stay on board. This is a lifejacket. It will help the lifeboat crew recover your body if you don't clip on."

 

[Skylark]

A lot of interesting advice offered. Getting back to the MoB is only half the story, of course. How and where will the inexperienced crew get you back on board, considering your ability or inability to help yourself?

Jib sheet are handy and can be useful for tethering. Spare halyard and winch, how will you attach to casualty? Handy billy from end of boom? Brute force over transom?

It’s not easy to lift someone out of the water and a recovery plan is just as important as a plan to get back to them. There’s probably not a one size fits all solution.

 

[R.Ems]

A lot of interesting advice offered. Getting back to the MoB is only half the story, of course. How and where will the inexperienced crew get you back on board, considering your ability or inability to help yourself?

Jib sheet are handy and can be useful for tethering. Spare halyard and winch, how will you attach to casualty? Handy billy from end of boom? Brute force over transom?

It’s not easy to lift someone out of the water and a recovery plan is just as important as a plan to get back to them. There’s probably not a one size fits all solution.

In my case: I'm just about to fit an electric windlass, and I have been thinking about how to use the rope drum for getting people back on board.
( I have been hoisted up someone's mast using their windlass rope drum, and it was very quick and smooth. Although I wore a climbing harness, not lifejacket. )
It might need a dedicated snatch-block on deck or something similar.

Attaching to casualty: Hopefully the casualty will be floating face-up, and be wearing a lifejacket with a harness ring.
How do you attach a re-purposed halyard to the ring? A similar problem to hooking a line onto an awkward mooring buoy.
Maybe one of the patent buoy-hooker devices might work well?
You will be lucky to be able to reach the lifejacket by hand.

Edited to add: L/J harness rings are meant for clipping tethers on, not for lifting people. But there is no option in the case of getting someone out of the water (discounting sling type arrangments).
Instead of a stainless steel ring, fancy modern versions are now just using a thick, padded fabric loop, which may be lighter and less likely to scratch the boat, but might be very hard to attach a halyard to, on an MOB floating alongside.

 

[Neeves]

A lot of interesting advice offered. Getting back to the MoB is only half the story, of course. How and where will the inexperienced crew get you back on board, considering your ability or inability to help yourself?

Jib sheet are handy and can be useful for tethering. Spare halyard and winch, how will you attach to casualty? Handy billy from end of boom? Brute force over transom?

It’s not easy to lift someone out of the water and a recovery plan is just as important as a plan to get back to them. There’s probably not a one size fits all solution.

We extended our transoms by 1m - they are 50mm above water level. They are absolutely brilliant for landing tuna - just get the sea right, they wash onto the transom, take in the line - they cannot get off. Being at sea level cleaning the fish is much cleaner.

Also very useful if you are discharging from an dinghy

They turn out to be good to swim on board - and as long as you can clip a line to the MOB you can (sheet) winch them on. As long as you get them alongside you can reach them from the transom (you might get a bit wet kneeling on the flat platform) and clip them on - if there is something to clip to.

Yachts with only one hull tend to have a greater height with which to contend.

Jonathan

 

[capnsensible]

What you suggest is quite close to the method taught by the sailing associations in these islands, but the idea of luffing up is now frowned upon. When approaching an MOB/ mooring buoy/ pontoon on a close reach, spilling and filling, you are expected to be able to stop the boat at a pre-determined point without luffing up, the point being that your boat remains "under command", which would not be the case if you luffed up to the point where you were " in irons", being blown downwind at the mercy of the wind and having to get under way again and repeat the manoeuvre to approach your objective.
Being on a Close Reach, your mainsail will lie head to wind if the sheet is released, so you can slow down and stop, at will, or power up so that reduced speed does not cause you to be be blown off-target. On the other hand you still have the option to point up to a Close Hauled point of sail of you are making excessive leeway.

The time to luff, not r not putting the helm hard over is just as your casualty reaches the shrouds. Very important on yachts with swept back spreaders. Otherwise you will find it very difficult to de power the main enough to stop the boat. Releasing the kicker helps a lot. But time after time I see people coming in a bit quick and unable to de power the main. Hence developing the luffing technique at the correct time.

Of course on older boats without rod kickers, scandalised the main is very effective. My school yacht was a Jenneau 36.2 and was an excellent yacht to practice sailing onto mob, sailing onand off the anchor and alongside moorings. Not all yachts are so well mannered.

 

[capnsensible]

A lot of interesting advice offered. Getting back to the MoB is only half the story, of course. How and where will the inexperienced crew get you back on board, considering your ability or inability to help yourself?

Jib sheet are handy and can be useful for tethering. Spare halyard and winch, how will you attach to casualty? Handy billy from end of boom? Brute force over transom?

It’s not easy to lift someone out of the water and a recovery plan is just as important as a plan to get back to them. There’s probably not a one size fits all solution.

A lot of interesting advice offered. Getting back to the MoB is only half the story, of course. How and where will the inexperienced crew get you back on board, considering your ability or inability to help yourself?

Jib sheet are handy and can be useful for tethering. Spare halyard and winch, how will you attach to casualty? Handy billy from end of boom? Brute force over transom?

It’s not easy to lift someone out of the water and a recovery plan is just as important as a plan to get back to them. There’s probably not a one size fits all solution.

Lifting a casualty up and over guard wires I think makes life more difficult. Why not bolt cropper them? Most boats have a pair. On lots of smaller yachts, laying on the side deck you can almost touch the water. Easier to grab a mob and get a line on them.

Sometimes I use the danbouy to simulate the mob. Getting a crew to lay on the side deck, clipped on, to reach under the guardwires works well.

At least if you got your deserter secured alongside, you got time to think through the next bit and with reduced height to lift them over is a bonus.

 

[capnsensible]

We extended our transoms by 1m - they are 50mm above water level. They are absolutely brilliant for landing tuna - just get the sea right, they wash onto the transom, take in the line - they cannot get off. Being at sea level cleaning the fish is much cleaner.

Also very useful if you are discharging from an dinghy

They turn out to be good to swim on board - and as long as you can clip a line to the MOB you can (sheet) winch them on. As long as you get them alongside you can reach them from the transom (you might get a bit wet kneeling on the flat platform) and clip them on - if there is something to clip to.

Yachts with only one hull tend to have a greater height with which to contend.

Jonathan

Isn't gaffing your mob a bit harsh?

Re spinnaker, that's a good learning story. Goes to show that accidents are never simple and there is so often a chain of events rather than one single cause. Glad it ended well.

My friend who owned the Fulmar I crash stopped under spinnaker, I use say, was rather unenthusiastic about repeating the exercise.. ..

 

[Neeves]

Isn't gaffing your mob a bit harsh?

Usefulness for MOB was accidental as was landing tuna - the priority was discharging heavy items from a dinghy - think a case of wine

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

On the Clipper yachts each watch has a helmet as part of the kit. Its there for the man going up the mast and for whoever has to go into the sea to secure a MOB once the yacht is alongside the MOB.

One of the greatest dangers in being in the water is the danger of having your head smashed by a tempestuous yacht (and similarly up the mast)




Its interesting the number of items used by climbers that are perfectly suited for sailing (and are often better specified than the equivalent for sailing - not that I an aware helmets are specified for sailing (until foiling).

Jonathan

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

In my case: I'm just about to fit an electric windlass, and I have been thinking about how to use the rope drum for getting people back on board.
( I have been hoisted up someone's mast using their windlass rope drum, and it was very quick and smooth. Although I wore a climbing harness, not lifejacket. )
It might need a dedicated snatch-block on deck or something similar.

Attaching to casualty: Hopefully the casualty will be floating face-up, and be wearing a lifejacket with a harness ring.
How do you attach a re-purposed halyard to the ring? A similar problem to hooking a line onto an awkward mooring buoy.
Maybe one of the patent buoy-hooker devices might work well?
You will be lucky to be able to reach the lifejacket by hand.

Edited to add: L/J harness rings are meant for clipping tethers on, not for lifting people. But there is no option in the case of getting someone out of the water (discounting sling type arrangments).
Instead of a stainless steel ring, fancy modern versions are now just using a thick, padded fabric loop, which may be lighter and less likely to scratch the boat, but might be very hard to attach a halyard to, on an MOB floating alongside.

Don't lifejackets have a webbing lifting becket between the bladders?

 

[R.Ems]

Don't lifejackets have a webbing lifting becket between the bladders?

Yes, but how would you attach the halyard to it?

 

[Neeves]

On the assumption that an MOB event is an accident I'd have to assume (worst case scenario) that the crew member was taken off guard in a big sea - and was not wearing a life jacket (or harness).

It is well and good to be the skipper and dictate the rules - but if you have the need for watches you cannot dictate for panic nor stupidity (if you are asleep) - but you, as skipper, are responsible. You may detect stupidity, half way across the Atlantic - but you cannot put that crew member ashore - so what to do?

Cruising couple, or families, are more sensible but people you don't know too well can be a real liability.

Jonathan

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

The time to luff, not r not putting the helm hard over is just as your casualty reaches the shrouds. Very important on yachts with swept back spreaders. Otherwise you will find it very difficult to de power the main enough to stop the boat. Releasing the kicker helps a lot. But time after time I see people coming in a bit quick and unable to de power the main. Hence developing the luffing technique at the correct time.

Of course on older boats without rod kickers, scandalised the main is very effective. My school yacht was a Jenneau 36.2 and was an excellent yacht to practice sailing onto mob, sailing onand off the anchor and alongside moorings. Not all yachts are so well mannered.

On a Close Reach the mainsail should flap when the sheet is dumped. This is how I used to teach trainees how to check if they were on the correct point of sail when approaching an MOB/mooring buoy. The sail will effectively be Head-To-Wind when released, and can be powered/ depowered by Spilling and Filling. If sailing too low the sail will not depower enough to stop, and S-Turns are required to remedy the situation. If Close Hauled you will make leeway, fall short of the target and have to go round again.
Close Reach is the sweet spot, and if the speed is controlled correctly, the boat can be stopped where it needs to be stopped without becoming " Not Under Command". Obviously, as you say, the kicker should be dumped for an effective complete depowering.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Yes, but how would you attach the halyard to it?

Bowline?
Edit: Forgive me for such a short answer, I can now expand.
Presuming the casualty is alongside and has been lassoed with a sheet or other spare line so as to be kept attached to the boat, you can lie on the deck and reach down with the end of the halyard and attach the snapshackle to the becket. If there is no snapshackle the end of the halyard can be passed through the becket and brought back on deck, where a bowline can now be tied.

 

[Elessar]

This is my recovering an MOB page from my on board manual (not yet updated for my new boat but the principle will be the same)

This is the getting them out bit, not the getting back to them bit.

 

[Elessar]

Posted in error