Mixed feelings about Flares

B

Barnacle Bill

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 Aug 2009
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530
Location
County Kilkenny, Ireland
www.aztecsailing.co.uk
I took the box of flares off the boat last week, because they were well out of date. Asking about disposal, the advice I got at the boatyard (Ireland) was "take them home", so I did, and I was curious. Would they still work? How easy are they to use anyway? I had never fired a flare before.

(I once thought it might be a good idea to demonstrate them to trainee skippers in my RYA school, asked the CG if we could do that, with prior warning that they did not signify distress, and (rather to my surprise) they said "No, Absolutely Not". That put me off flares a bit: if a sailing school isn't even allowed to demonstrate how to fire them, and what they do, to trainee skippers, can they really be regarded as useful and usable signals?)

Well I decided to set off some of the hand flares in the garden (no danger of being mistaken for genuine distress of course, inland and invisible to the outside world). So my sons fired up four hand flares, beside the bonfire patch so they could be dropped if necessary. Every single flare worked perfectly and safely (the sons took pictures and were delighted).

So now I have "disposed of" four of them (dated 2008 by the way) and I thought: well maybe I should keep the other two, if they work perfectly well? I'm no longer under "coding" requirements, so I'm not obliged to carry in-date flares by the MCA or anyone else as far as I'm aware. And frankly I'm a bit pee'd off by being expected to "dispose of" and replace something that evidently still works 100% OK 15 years after its expiry date. (Someone is wasting my money.)

There are still the rocket flares and the smokes ...
 
I have done similar to demonstrate to Navigator. Prohibited for warning flares as CG says must not be let off except in case of an emergency, but no one took any notice anyway setting them off in a Bristol suburban garden.

No CG problem with white flares as they are just illumination or advisory (not warning) and we demonstrated them again last weekend in garden and fine after a mere 11 years.
 
If I was going ocean again then I'd definitely carry a set of flares. Coastal or offshore within reach of rescue services the things are just not worth the risk of having onboard, given that we carry an EPRIB, PLBs + personal AIS, VHF, handheld VHF, 'electronic flares', Starlink and 2 cellphones. Using flares when there's alternatives that are at least as effective carries the small but quantifiable risk of turning a drama into a crisis.
 
I pretty much agree with those who say they are not worth the risks anymore.

I wouldn't argue with anyone who wanted to carry them, but I would prefer not to be required to carry them on my boat.

It's rare that they are used in rescue or assistance situations now.
 
Barnacle Bill said:
I took the box of flares off the boat last week, because they were well out of date. Asking about disposal, the advice I got at the boatyard (Ireland) was "take them home", so I did, and I was curious. Would they still work? How easy are they to use anyway? I had never fired a flare before.

(I once thought it might be a good idea to demonstrate them to trainee skippers in my RYA school, asked the CG if we could do that, with prior warning that they did not signify distress, and (rather to my surprise) they said "No, Absolutely Not". That put me off flares a bit: if a sailing school isn't even allowed to demonstrate how to fire them, and what they do, to trainee skippers, can they really be regarded as useful and usable signals?)

Well I decided to set off some of the hand flares in the garden (no danger of being mistaken for genuine distress of course, inland and invisible to the outside world). So my sons fired up four hand flares, beside the bonfire patch so they could be dropped if necessary. Every single flare worked perfectly and safely (the sons took pictures and were delighted).

So now I have "disposed of" four of them (dated 2008 by the way) and I thought: well maybe I should keep the other two, if they work perfectly well? I'm no longer under "coding" requirements, so I'm not obliged to carry in-date flares by the MCA or anyone else as far as I'm aware. And frankly I'm a bit pee'd off by being expected to "dispose of" and replace something that evidently still works 100% OK 15 years after its expiry date. (Someone is wasting my money.)

There are still the rocket flares and the smokes ...
Click to expand...
As the Hackett says, the prob is that people will be tempted to do parachute flares which continue to burn when they land. Also the guy who had a flare backfire into his stomach? Dangerous things and there are alternatives now.
 
Barnacle Bill said:
I took the box of flares off the boat last week, because they were well out of date. Asking about disposal, the advice I got at the boatyard (Ireland) was "take them home", so I did, and I was curious. Would they still work? How easy are they to use anyway? I had never fired a flare before.

(I once thought it might be a good idea to demonstrate them to trainee skippers in my RYA school, asked the CG if we could do that, with prior warning that they did not signify distress, and (rather to my surprise) they said "No, Absolutely Not". That put me off flares a bit: if a sailing school isn't even allowed to demonstrate how to fire them, and what they do, to trainee skippers, can they really be regarded as useful and usable signals?)

Well I decided to set off some of the hand flares in the garden (no danger of being mistaken for genuine distress of course, inland and invisible to the outside world). So my sons fired up four hand flares, beside the bonfire patch so they could be dropped if necessary. Every single flare worked perfectly and safely (the sons took pictures and were delighted).

So now I have "disposed of" four of them (dated 2008 by the way) and I thought: well maybe I should keep the other two, if they work perfectly well? I'm no longer under "coding" requirements, so I'm not obliged to carry in-date flares by the MCA or anyone else as far as I'm aware. And frankly I'm a bit pee'd off by being expected to "dispose of" and replace something that evidently still works 100% OK 15 years after its expiry date. (Someone is wasting my money.)

There are still the rocket flares and the smokes ...
Click to expand...
I am fortunate in living near an Army Base. They were deighted to have my old Offshore set for using in training.
 
Steamkettle said:
Coastal or offshore within reach of rescue services the things are just not worth the risk of having onboard
Click to expand...
Unfortunately life rafts usually have a pack in them so hard to avoid for many of us. End of life life rafts aren’t fun to dispose of either. Luckily the RNLI took my old on to do some training
 
RunAgroundHard said:
You don't need too fire one to be trained in how to use them. Reading the OEM instructions is all that is required.
Click to expand...
Maybe but, while I know how to use flares, when it's time to set them off, I reckon I'm going to be pretty busy, and my crew is likely to be too frightened to take in the instructions. The last thing I want is a panicked crew member waving a big hot flame about in the cockpit.

I have two VHFs - DSC & handheld, and at least one - if I'm alone - more likely two or more mobile phones, and it's very rare that I go far enough offshore that we won't have a signal. My risk assessment is that flares are probably more likely to harm than help, though I fully accept that other people's may be different.
 
I have avoided having flares aboard since the nasty incident in Southampton (as referred to above). But I am thinking that carrying two floating smokes might be useful to assist vessel ID from a helicopter.
 
lustyd said:
Unfortunately life rafts usually have a pack in them so hard to avoid for many of us. End of life life rafts aren’t fun to dispose of either. Luckily the RNLI took my old on to do some training
Click to expand...
I got my life raft pack downgraded to no flares on its service.
 
Barnacle Bill said:
I'm not obliged to carry in-date flares by the MCA or anyone else as far as I'm aware. And frankly I'm a bit pee'd off by being expected to "dispose of" and replace something that evidently still works 100% OK 15 years after its expiry date. (Someone is wasting my money.)
Click to expand...
If you go to France they will require all flares to be in date & they did inspect mine in Boulogne & another port ( forget which one). So, best thing is to carry them across the channel & lob them overboard, once in Cherbourg's outer harbour.
That will learn em :rolleyes:
 
Beneteau381 said:
As the Hackett says, the prob is that people will be tempted to do parachute flares which continue to burn when they land. Also the guy who had a flare backfire into his stomach? Dangerous things and there are alternatives now.
Click to expand...

Yes but where you and I are based, we have to carry them or risk potentially heavy fine.
 
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