MiToS re-built/fit- versilcraft Mystery43

[wakeup]

Surely you want the foot switches where you can operate them whilst peering over the bow in order to watch the anchor and chain during deployment and recovery?

I can't see how you could safely operate the foot switches with intended foot if they are inside a locker and at the same time trying to keep an eye on proceedings. Certainly no possible on my boat.

 

[vas]

I'd put the foot switches on a ledge in the anchor locker, gives them a bit of protection and two less holes to worry about on your new deck.

had a go at designing something like what I imagine you mean (haven't seen it tbh before-or probably have seen the hatch but not the undercover switches!) but I'm worried it wont be v.functional. Have you got a pic of your setup?

I wouldn't. Having had foot switches on a previous boat they really need to be on a large flat surface that fits both of your feet to both be comfortable and for you to quickly release a switch. Having one foot on deck and another down a locker sounds far from ideal.

if the hatch is large enough (I'm planning for a 350X350mm one) then you may just be able to built a ledge 50mm below deck level. If the ledge/switches combo is on the bow side of the hatch, then you can possibly (without being 7ft tall and quadruple jointed) peer over the rails whilst stepping on the button.

Surely you want the foot switches where you can operate them whilst peering over the bow in order to watch the anchor and chain during deployment and recovery?

I can't see how you could safely operate the foot switches with intended foot if they are inside a locker and at the same time trying to keep an eye on proceedings. Certainly no possible on my boat.

pretty sure that it wont be easy on many boats. Starting from (almost) scratch it's easier.
My concern is that the collective experience seems to imply that foot switches are something that wont stay watertight and operational for more than a week at best when left on deck. Are they really that bad? The lofrans ones I have seem of very decent quality although I admit they were cheap for marine items (less than a tenner each iirc)


cheers

V.

PS. no real progress as wife away on a conf, son in bed with tonsillitis so I'm baby sitting and taxiing kids around

 

[rwoofer]

had a go at designing something like what I imagine you mean (haven't seen it tbh before-or probably have seen the hatch but not the undercover switches!) but I'm worried it wont be v.functional. Have you got a pic of your setup?



if the hatch is large enough (I'm planning for a 350X350mm one) then you may just be able to built a ledge 50mm below deck level. If the ledge/switches combo is on the bow side of the hatch, then you can possibly (without being 7ft tall and quadruple jointed) peer over the rails whilst stepping on the button.



pretty sure that it wont be easy on many boats. Starting from (almost) scratch it's easier.
My concern is that the collective experience seems to imply that foot switches are something that wont stay watertight and operational for more than a week at best when left on deck. Are they really that bad? The lofrans ones I have seem of very decent quality although I admit they were cheap for marine items (less than a tenner each iirc)


cheers

V.

PS. no real progress as wife away on a conf, son in bed with tonsillitis so I'm baby sitting and taxiing kids around

Well I had them on a balsa cored deck for 3 years without a problem. Like all things, proper installation is everything. Why not drill oversize holes, fill with epoxy and then drill the actual holes needed. This is what you do with balsa cores.

 

[rbcoomer]

My boat has the switched just underneath the anchor locker door, along with many other boats. It's no trouble to operate them and makes the bow much tidier.

This is what I had in mind when I suggested a ledge inside the hatch With all the various comments suggesting it might not be practical however I'm not so sure anymore... I guess it would depend on hatch size, location and the switches not being too much below deck level? I still quite like the idea aesthetically and in terms of switch protection. I suppose I like the idea of keeping the electrics protected as much as possible and figured if anyone can devise a 'locker ledge' then Vas would...

 

[KevB]

had a go at designing something like what I imagine you mean (haven't seen it tbh before-or probably have seen the hatch but not the undercover switches!) but I'm worried it wont be v.functional. Have you got a pic of your setup?

I'll take some pictures at the weekend. My switches are on the bottom left of the locker as you look at your picture on a diagonal shelf.

 

[vas]

Bow hatch on hold at the moment as I'm working inside (weather decided that it's a good period to rain, so drizzle and short showers on a daily basis but temps still at around 15C)

Throughout the week George and myself have been working on different projects inside.
First of all, I worked on the anchor locker. Possibly the worst job I've tackled to date! small hatch that I can get both arms and head through but then back muscles have to carry the weight of the upper body whilst bending over and stretching to reach/paint/lay cloth/whatever. Two sessions in there were coupled with 2X10h sleep to recover
Things started badly with me applying a couple of thinned epoxy that in this enclosed space was awful. Fumes were unbearable so had to take deep breath, get head and arm in, paint, exhale, head out, breath and back in again...
Luckily undiluted epoxy doesn't stink, so, got two to three layers of cloth and epoxy all around, ready for fitting the drain pipe through the bulkhead and painting. I'm thinking of NOT using bilge paint, but rather paint with white/grey coloured epoxy (got white and black colour, and a few kilos of epoxy ) reason being that it's harder, easier to mend/top up if necessary at a later stage without having to scrape through layers of paint. No UV to mess up with epoxy so got no reason not to.
I know as I've spent a day scrapping old paint all around the anchor locker and was seriously knackered.

The locker from bow:

general views/condition with a mix of new ply and old:

had to fabricate some wedges to fill in and smooth the acute corners within there to avoid chain blocking and to make sure all crud and water drains to the bottom. There were 4 spots that water/mud would just stay there for ever:

awful task of applying mat:

finished!

George has been working on the bed frame and cabinets around the bed. Frame was complete with 50X70 iroko beams (probably an overkill!) just the last outer one had to be glued I place and the cabinet and doors frames shaped and glued. Looks like this now. Everything going according to plan with two cabinets on the port side (that's mine as they are the most difficult to access...) and three on the foot of the bed, the most inaccessible one is in front of the anchor locker, so windlass relay and tools space whereas the other two for the wife. Amazingly (well was planed but it also worked out) all 5 cabinet doors are 505mm wide, so quite regular. Only thing that failed to materialize as planned is the placement of the 520mm round portlight on the bow deck. On plan it was looking rather close, turns out that it's too close to be doable so portlight needs to move aft one frame width. Pisses me off slightly as I should have moved it originally when we were rebuilding the bow deck years ago...

next pic shows where the cabinet door frame will go on the port light above, obviously wont fit with the hatch:

I'm also happy to report that after hours and hours of thinking and test fitting and possibly around 40h working on the manual bilge pump project I have installed the manifold and fitted the "portable" 3/4inch pipe. Originally MiToS was built with a 4 way manifold 3/4inch inside the e/r (just under the genny) and a small pipe through the e/r - lazarette bulkhead to a diaphragm pump and off to the transom.
New system employs a MASSIVE Rheinstrom 1.5inch diaphragm pump (fully rebuilt as it was bought s/h) a new manifold with 2X 1.25inch inlets and 1X3/4inch inlet to a 1.5inch outlet and a fancy(read expensive!) flexipipe to join them. Then a 1.5inch blue bilge spec pipe routed through the lazarette ceiling to the transom skin fitting. The two fixed ones will be the one for the cabins bilge and the other to the e/r area. There will be three auto bilges one for each compartment (cabins, e/r, lazarette) haven't done them yet, want to finish with cleaning the bilges all around, painting them and then fitting all bits that go down there...

red turp up again so samba coloured pics am afraid

some more things to report at a later post during the w/e. Tomorrow plan is to finish the timber work in the bow cabin so that I can spent next week cleaning and vacuuming carefully and painting the cabin bilges.
The week after starts the upholstering and I have to think ways of bribing the kids to come and help as there's no way I'll do it myself.

cheers

V.

 

[MapisM]

V, your updates never fail to make me reconsider my own DIY jobs.
Believe it or not, after I began following your thread I stopped complaining with anyone about the fact that boats aren't always a bed of roses....


That said, with reference to your comment:

Things started badly with me applying a couple of thinned epoxy that in this enclosed space was awful. Fumes were unbearable so had to take deep breath, get head and arm in, paint, exhale, head out, breath and back in again...

I would STRONGLY recommend you to be very careful with that stuff.
'Dunno which products you are using exactly, but there are still some around which are EXTREMELY toxic - to the point of requiring to be handled only with breathers (either connected to tanks or to an external air source).
The effects of some of these chemicals on your lungs, eyes, etc. can be nasty.
And I mean it. No boat on earth is worth risking your health.

 

[rafiki_]

Vas, nice intelligent job in the anchor locker. Good thinking with the wedges. I echo MM's thoughts on the fumes, but you know all about this. She is really starting to come together.

 

[vas]

V, your updates never fail to make me reconsider my own DIY jobs.
Believe it or not, after I began following your thread I stopped complaining with anyone about the fact that boats aren't always a bed of roses....

good to hear, by stopping moaning you can spend more time actually working and fixing things

That said, with reference to your comment:

I would STRONGLY recommend you to be very careful with that stuff.
'Dunno which products you are using exactly, but there are still some around which are EXTREMELY toxic - to the point of requiring to be handled only with breathers (either connected to tanks or to an external air source).
The effects of some of these chemicals on your lungs, eyes, etc. can be nasty.
And I mean it. No boat on earth is worth risking your health.

Vas, nice intelligent job in the anchor locker. Good thinking with the wedges. I echo MM's thoughts on the fumes, but you know all about this. She is really starting to come together.

guys, I've gone through more than 50lt of various types of epoxy sourced locally from a firm that is mainly exporting abroad. I've never had any problems, burning eyes, coughing, breathing probs, dizziness, headaches, or anything else. It's only using this alcohol to dilute the epoxy that produces a strong smell I guess of the evaporated alcohol carrying a bit of epoxy in it that got me.
FWIW, most of the epoxying takes place in open and well ventilated spaces, so I'm pretty confident I'll survive.

As expected, didn't manage to finish all the cabinetwork for the bow cabin. Will be there a few hours in the morning and hopefully finish on Tue as Mon is full with teaching and supervising.
Did manage to epoxy in place a ss pipe for the drain of the anchor locker (32mm or 1.25inch) so nice and large unlikely to block from crud. Also moved ( ) the bow hull portlight on stbrd side aft by 15mm so that it clears the cabinetry and is fully functional. Will do the same tomorrow on port side.

On another topic, I've started upholstering the ceiling strips from the cabins at home. Unashamedly I started with sons cabin as the least I want is lay in bed and notice imperfections in the upholstery above my head. I know v.selfish, but what can I do
Luckily, it turned out better than I was expecting-it's as good (actually much better as it's new compared to the almost 40yo ones!) as the originals. Wasn't a quick process though as one strip out of the 9 in this cabin took me around an hour. Pretty sure I can reduce that to half an hour after a few more are done. Wanted to go through the upholstering at small easy pieces to get up to speed for the week after when I'll be upholstering the bulkheads all around the cabins.

Using some good quality leatherette (white, black as originally fitted as well as a yellow that daughter picked and a blue the son wants) a 5mm foam and a staple gun with ss 6mm deep staples turned up to almost full strength. Following series of pics show the full process:

only comment from me is that getting a nice and properly stretched surface means a lot of pulling to staple the second side. That took most of the time!

more news on Tue most likely
cheers

V.

 

[rbcoomer]

Great job on the upholstery V :encouragement:

I'm dreading that bit I must admit - not so much the trim, but the seat cushions, piping etc. Will be interested in following your progress.

 

[MapisM]

It's only using this alcohol to dilute the epoxy that produces a strong smell I guess of the evaporated alcohol carrying a bit of epoxy in it that got me.

Yep, good going on the upholstery, V.

Re. the epoxy stuff, your statement above made me curious.
Are you sure it's an alcohol that you are using as a diluent? I never heard of alcohol-dilutable epoxy resins.
Wasn't it rather Toluene, by chance? Or some other solvents - none of which I'd be happy to breath, anyway.
And the very same goes for curing agents.

Forgive me if I'm teaching granny to suck eggs, but since you are sourcing the stuff from a producer, you surely can ask them to give you the MSDS of whatever chemicals you are using.
Boring stuff indeed, I know, and useless in some cases, but well worth reading, in many others...

 

[vas]

MM, maybe my terminology is wrong, sometimes I simply use the greek word used in English like for like, and may get off the mark.
I mean something that is volatile, or ethereal if it makes sense.

Anyway, I'll visit him sometime this week and will ask. He's a material science eng so should be able to explain/provide docs.
I want to scrap the idea of building the bathing platform out of foam/epoxy/mat combo so want to check with him some details.
Yes, I know I should really do it out of teak, but not so happy with weight/sizes.
Maybe the best bet would be cedar as it's similar properties to teak but 1/3 of the weight (or thereabouts)

So, drifting again, anyone knows why cedar is not extensively used in marine industry???

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

Great job on the upholstery V :encouragement:

I'm dreading that bit I must admit - not so much the trim, but the seat cushions, piping etc. Will be interested in following your progress.

Robin,

trim is easy (just need brains, Stanley knife and el. stapler), cushions et all means decent sewing machine and other exotic stuff I've not got.
However you reminded me that I've got to get all old cushions from the sofa and the to be built sofa to someone who's going to built new ones (most likely inside out, not just relining)

cheers

V

 

[MapisM]

anyone knows why cedar is not extensively used in marine industry???

Not a clue on the specific reasons V, but there must be some for sure, 'cause I never heard of any external parts built with it.
Possibly too prone to absorb moisture, or to crack when dried by the sun...
...just to mention a couple of common concerns when building boat parts in wood.
But I'm only guessing.

 

[newWave]

only comment from me is that getting a nice and properly stretched surface means a lot of pulling to staple the second side. That took most of the time!

Not sure if this would work but...
I would sugest that once you stapled one side, then roll the material onto a broomstick and then pull at the edgess to stretch the whole length at the same time, then clamp down your piece and the broomstick, staple away and the cut the surpluss material.
You will use some more material unless you can do the exercise directly from the roll supplied.

 

[vas]

Not sure if this would work but...
I would sugest that once you stapled one side, then roll the material onto a broomstick and then pull at the edgess to stretch the whole length at the same time, then clamp down your piece and the broomstick, staple away and the cut the surpluss material.
You will use some more material unless you can do the exercise directly from the roll supplied.

nice one!

I'm using 1.5m wide strips that make 4 or 5 panels. I could do it for the first 3-4 ones and the last one has to be done by hand. Will try later on tonight and report back Got to small plastic plier like grips I can use without marking the upholstery.

cheers

V.

 

[newWave]

nice one!

I'm using 1.5m wide strips that make 4 or 5 panels. I could do it for the first 3-4 ones and the last one has to be done by hand. Will try later on tonight and report back Got to small plastic plier like grips I can use without marking the upholstery.

cheers

V.

When clamps don't work, you can use a carpenters bench kinda thingy.
I try to explain, an old school carpenters bench has a number off rectangular slots where wooden pins can be inserted to hold all kinds of materials.
You can mimick this with a surplus piece of ply, make a raised edge on the one long side, then on the small ends make a raised edge with slots that can hold the broom stick.
Then you can roll up the material, pull until the right tension, find the best slot that fits and roll up/off material to fit the slot.

I hope that makes sence to you without a drawing.
Good luck I hope it will help speed up things and maintain constant tension on the material.

 

[vas]

100K thread views!

I hope that makes sence to you without a drawing.
Good luck I hope it will help speed up things and maintain constant tension on the material.

thanks, got it, I actually have one bench like that in the workshop/basement of my house, but it's so filthy and scruffy I'd not dare get any lining nearby


BTW, thread reached 100K views, if I was sad enough I'd keep the rebuilt going for another 5yrs and catch JFM's built threads
I'd rather be in the water soon, so I'll settle for bronze until the MatchIII built thread or Rob's grey steel 50footer is in the water
So, just a BIG thank you to the contributors for teaching me lots of stuff over the last two years and hoping you wont stop now as there's still things to discuss and learn

Actually today was (in my mind at least) an important milestone as the bow cabin cabinetry was completed, all removable bits stored in the small cabin and a 3h hoovering session took place, followed with a second CPES coat on the keel and some areas that I'd like to protect.
Means that tomorrow I'll start treating with teak oil the bilges and w/e onwards I can start the upholstering!

Mental plan says by end of April I should have the three cabins completely upholstered and lined, all pipework/seacocks etc in place, 2 heads operational.

May should see the saloon and galley assembled and move to the f/b for the cabinets/seats up there.

June for teak decking and leftovers
No solid plans for bathing platform, not happy paying 2-3K on teak for it, so still thinking about alternatives.

George will take care of the painting from May onwards

Anyway, a few pics from the work of the last few days:

port bow portlight shifted 15mm aft to fit with the new cabinet (yes the stbrd one was also moved aft 15mm last week...). Further two layers of 12mm ply were shaped and added to get the thickness right for the portlight frame.

Cabinetry around the foot of the bed done. Took this pic as it's funny what a patchwork the model for an oddly shaped piece of ply can be . This is the bottom of the port cabinet going all around the frames.

Overview of the whole assembly with the 15mm ply for the bed in place. Bed cap is in two pieces, leg section lifts off to reveal extra storage whereas the other one is bolted down and there's a deep drawer (or two) underneath it.

George was worried about the way the doors will look like when closed and if they foul when opened. So brought two small pieces and test fitted them in all combos. All was fine.

Last was anchor locker drain. Since I'd fit a ss section of 32mm OD I was after a 1.25inch skin fitting and found one locally for 4euro with a non-return valve (a joke of a valve but should be ok for the use). Outlet is a good 300mm above w/l will try and source a s/s scoup to add.

cheers

V.

 

[Robg71]

I dont think there is any first, second or third places Vas... Your work is testament to a bit of grit and determination. Its looking good, and I still reckon is the harder job to restore than build in the first instance.
i take my hat off sir

 

[petem]

Its looking good, and I still reckon is the harder job to restore than build in the first instance.
i take my hat off sir

+1 to that!