MiToS re-built/fit- versilcraft Mystery43

[vas]

Last update on the aft deck. Spent a few hours filling small gaps and beveling angles with thickened epoxy preparing for the lightweight mat and epoxy treatment of all cabinet surfaces. Next pics should have the bench lids when I bother to do them

Side boxes/steps with supports for the lid all around and fresh new 6mm ply back:

put the 15mm ply missing on the transom capping, so all is complete now, just needs sanding, feathering and a 280gr/m2 mat and epoxy to finish it off. Then I'll get the passerelle in place and that's going to be a heavy job using scaffolding:

Bow work is more or less finished, needs again sanding, smoothing and the matt/epoxy combo. Best if I do the holes though now!

Above, at deck level, sanded and filled up all gaps.

Tried to test fit the bow roller which ended up with lots of headscratching... If I'd align it to the roller itself, then the fixing plate was 15mm off centre, if I'd fit according to the fixing plate, rollers were way off. Turns out bleeding roller frame is BENT, ffs that's 4 or 5mm ss plate! So will remove the rollers and attempt to straighten it up before fitting, cheap job

Since I didn't see many comments on the bow setup, I should probably start a new thread for it
So my last attempt in this thread on the bow layout:

In the sketch above I've got various ideas on the layout. Top left and bottom right are the most likely candidates unless someone has other ideas. As I said, I want one decent hatch for anchor chain access and possibly a second one for storing few bits (flatish) and access to the shower head. The top right sketch shows the bulkhead between the anchor locker and the cabin with the round port. Port is 600mm dia, windlass is 400mm long and 330mm wide and obviously massively offset to port. The bottom right sketch tries to get two hatches in place orthogonal around 400X220mm thus exaggerating the assymetrical setup. Foot switches are moved aft slightly again on the port side where the rope drum lives. TBH, although it's ergonomically OK, I feel it's awful I do have the separate hatch to port where I can have a permanent "floor" and lay stuff on, but is doesn't look right.
OTOH, the top left sketch has a larger 400X400mm hatch and level to the aft of this hatch are the two footswitches and possibly a flush mounted shower head (whale do a v.nice one that I've also bought for the bathing platform shower and struggle to find a place to fit it, but that's another story...)

final two pics show the inside of the anchor locker with all the frames and keel messing about creating v.busy and undulated surfaces. Previous owner simply had added a layer of mat and resin but had completely lost the plot on the lower part and drain layout...
Two options:

A. go on the same route and do a decent job of sealing everything up to deck level
B. fill the gaps between the frames with polyurethane, then a protecting film (if needed, haven't tried if epoxy attacks and dissolves polyurethane as resin does) and epoxy/mat.

the advantages of A are that I have a larger locker and chain remains slightly lower (probably makes no difference whatsoever!)
the advantages of B are that I have a smoother locker inner surface and less chances of the chain twisting/locking/messing.

Opinions on both the hatch layout and the anchor locker treatment are welcomed as always!

cheers

V.

 

[Divemaster1]

Vas,

How about no foot switches ?

Up/down switches at helm(s) + hand held up/down with single waterproof cable connection somewhere less restrictive to layout on fwd deck?

 

[vas]

Vas,

How about no foot switches ?

Up/down switches at helm(s) + hand held up/down with single waterproof cable connection somewhere less restrictive to layout on fwd deck?

and what am I meant to do with the brand new ones I've bought last year then, Alf?
There are up down switches at both helms, not keen on wired nor wireless handhelds.
Is there something particularly nasty about the footswitches? They are the ones that have an extra solid rubber hinged cover fwiw.

any comments on the hatch layout?

cheers

V.

 

[rbcoomer]

Could you hide the foot switches in a recessed tray within a slightly larger hatch? More work I know, but would also protect the switches from the worst of the elements... (I'd go for the one with the shower attachment as presumably that's to rinse the crud off the chain when lifted?)

Great progress once again - lucky you're not in the UK really as covers would probably have blown off in the gales and those nice bench boxes would be water tanks!

 

[rafiki_]

Vas, the cockpit is starting to look really good, well done. The hull looks fantastic too, a real credit to you and George for all your hard work. I can't really help with the bow, as it is really hard to picture and gauge sizes etc. The windlass switches will need to be convenient for your ability to see the anchor up and down. Again, you will need the get a feel for this when on board.

 

[Divemaster1]

and what am I meant to do with the brand new ones I've bought last year then, Alf?
There are up down switches at both helms, not keen on wired nor wireless handhelds.
.........

cheers

V.

Not my problem really ... in my experience, foot switches restricts the operators movement and I prefer bow crew to guide person at helm controlling winch, or having the ability of being a bit more mobile... Irrespective of layout, make sure that whomever operates the switches they can hold on to the rail safely whilst watching the chain direction etc., without compromising their safety!

 

[kashurst]

+1 for remote windlass control it makes anchor recovery much easier.operator can look over the bow and indicate to helm which way the chain is . I would have a good hatch for anchor chain access, big enough to climbin and untangle the chain,but I wouldn't bother with a storage locker, its too far away from cockpit and helm, much better to keep stuff in your new cockpit lockers

 

[MapisM]

any comments on the hatch layout?

Actually V, my first thought would be, why bother with a hatch at all?
Forgive me if you mentioned it somewhere and I missed it, but I assume the original setup allowed an access to the anchor locker below deck, through a removable panel on the anchor locker bulkhead, right?
If that is the case, it's the same arrangement I've got on my boat, and in my experience it's more than enough practical.
And in a wooden boat, the deck is the last place (after the hull of course) where you want to cut holes - which invariably mean higher risk of fresh water infiltrations.

I also agree with Alf on foot switches btw. I don't have any, and never missed them.
Otoh, I do have a deck shower, and use it regularly to rinse the chain and the windlass while lifting the hook.
It's a bit of an additional hassle TBH, but pays dividends in terms of chain duration.

 

[Nick_H]

+1 for remote windlass control it makes anchor recovery much easier.operator can look over the bow and indicate to helm which way the chain is . I would have a good hatch for anchor chain access, big enough to climbin and untangle the chain,but I wouldn't bother with a storage locker, its too far away from cockpit and helm, much better to keep stuff in your new cockpit lockers

I've fitted a curtain and base in the bow locker. It can be easily removed for access to the chain and windlass, but in between times we can use the space to store the front fenders when underway.

 

[MapisM]

Looks convenient indeed.
But doesn't the chain risk to fall through the curtain, while cruising?
Or is the chain volume small enough to stay under the wooden base?

 

[vas]

Dear all, didn't realize that footswitches are hated that much by the community!
I've got enough experience with the f/b toggle and a fugly non-waterproof wired remote that was too messy to use so wanted something better...

Could you hide the foot switches in a recessed tray within a slightly larger hatch? More work I know, but would also protect the switches from the worst of the elements... (I'd go for the one with the shower attachment as presumably that's to rinse the crud off the chain when lifted?)

Great progress once again - lucky you're not in the UK really as covers would probably have blown off in the gales and those nice bench boxes would be water tanks!

Foot switches are reasonably cheap (plus I've got a few spares as well...) so not really something I couldn't throw away if I feel it's not performing properly, but I guess that will be a decade down the line. Hiding them in a tray would make them too difficult to operate I feel
Recessed tray is what I was thinking for the shower head/anchor/windlass wash though.

It's spring down here Robin, covers are packed and gone for good and the bench boxes have 10X100mm holes on their sides so unlikely to fill up unless we are talking a cataclysm not even a flood would do it

Vas, the cockpit is starting to look really good, well done. The hull looks fantastic too, a real credit to you and George for all your hard work. I can't really help with the bow, as it is really hard to picture and gauge sizes etc. The windlass switches will need to be convenient for your ability to see the anchor up and down. Again, you will need the get a feel for this when on board.

Thanks P., yes was planning to post an acad plot but need to get some measurements today and check exact position of the frames underneath to make it more accurate. If I go ahead with the footswitches I'll probably move them to the bow end of the hatch not the aft end but the problem is that I've not got the railings up so I can only speculate where and how someone would hang onto them checking the chain/anchor coming up...

Not my problem really ... in my experience, foot switches restricts the operators movement and I prefer bow crew to guide person at helm controlling winch, or having the ability of being a bit more mobile... Irrespective of layout, make sure that whomever operates the switches they can hold on to the rail safely whilst watching the chain direction etc., without compromising their safety!

I know it's not your problem, it's mine I can always keep them in my office and confuse ppl that come visiting together with the old massive steering ram, a broken gulper220, an 76mm ss elbow from fiat's downpipe and some M8 and M10 bolts

+1 for remote windlass control it makes anchor recovery much easier.operator can look over the bow and indicate to helm which way the chain is . I would have a good hatch for anchor chain access, big enough to climbin and untangle the chain,but I wouldn't bother with a storage locker, its too far away from cockpit and helm, much better to keep stuff in your new cockpit lockers

Actually V, my first thought would be, why bother with a hatch at all?
Forgive me if you mentioned it somewhere and I missed it, but I assume the original setup allowed an access to the anchor locker below deck, through a removable panel on the anchor locker bulkhead, right?
If that is the case, it's the same arrangement I've got on my boat, and in my experience it's more than enough practical.
And in a wooden boat, the deck is the last place (after the hull of course) where you want to cut holes - which invariably mean higher risk of fresh water infiltrations.

I also agree with Alf on foot switches btw. I don't have any, and never missed them.
Otoh, I do have a deck shower, and use it regularly to rinse the chain and the windlass while lifting the hook.
It's a bit of an additional hassle TBH, but pays dividends in terms of chain duration.

Replying to both Kashurst and MM together here:
Yes I could store lines at the aft deck lockers and yes MM I do have a 400X250mm hole in the anchor locker bulkhead accessible from a cabinet to be made at the foot of the bow cabin bed. Messing with muddy/rusty chains from in there is a recipe for a fight with the wife as I'm most likely going to stain something down there. So yes, I've got access, but I consider it as emergency and only if the top hatch wont cut it

MM, agree re cutting holes in wooden boats, but since there's going to be lots of water coming in (filthy as well!) the locker, I don't seem much of a problem in having a largish hatch to help me out in there... I'll post a new sketch during the day with a few more explanations, got to rush now.

I've fitted a curtain and base in the bow locker. It can be easily removed for access to the chain and windlass, but in between times we can use the space to store the front fenders when underway.

Nick your anchor locker is probably half the size of my bow cabin
I do like the idea of the false base and soft walls, may well suit my main problem of storing the shower hose without messing it with the chain!

cheers

V.

 

[MapisM]

MM, agree re cutting holes in wooden boats, but since there's going to be lots of water coming in (filthy as well!) the locker, I don't seem much of a problem in having a largish hatch to help me out in there... I'll post a new sketch during the day with a few more explanations, got to rush now.

I see your point V, but actually it's not exactly the same thing.
I mean, as you well know, the risk of rotting wood comes more from hidden leaks, where freshwater can stagnate inside one of the deck layers.
In this sense, some saltwater going down the locker together with the chain, and going out through the anchor locker drain, is no big deal.
Keeping any deck hatch perfectly w/tight is another story, particularly on wooden decks which can flex over time.
I'm not saying it can't be done, of course, but I'd just avoid the risk altogether, unless really necessary.
Each to their own on that, anyway!

 

[Divemaster1]

Vas,

I'll get a picture of my hinges.... they sort of lift seat up first, then swing back... but bench not too dis-similar..

Finally got up to the boat ........ Here you go Vas.... at various stage of opening....

 

[MapisM]

Finally got up to the boat ........ Here you go Vas.... at various stage of opening....

Nice stuff, where did you source them? And are they available also in s/steel, by chance?

 

[Divemaster1]

They are SS ... covered nicely in light grease hence the colour... Will find the supplier for you ...

 

[MapisM]

Oops, I confused the colour with oxidation...
Thanks in advance for finding the supplier, if you can.

 

[vas]

I see your point V, but actually it's not exactly the same thing.
I mean, as you well know, the risk of rotting wood comes more from hidden leaks, where freshwater can stagnate inside one of the deck layers.
In this sense, some saltwater going down the locker together with the chain, and going out through the anchor locker drain, is no big deal.
Keeping any deck hatch perfectly w/tight is another story, particularly on wooden decks which can flex over time.
I'm not saying it can't be done, of course, but I'd just avoid the risk altogether, unless really necessary.
Each to their own on that, anyway!

Fully agree MM, but again, I've still not figured out a decent way of having a fresh water shower head up there and the inside access is a bit problematic.
BTW, I'm going to soak the inside of the anchor locker with a few v.thin coats of epoxy, then add some pieces of polywhatever to smoothen the bottom of it without reducing the volume too much and then a 280gr/m2 mat and few more coats of epoxy to finish it off. Once I'm done, it's highly unlikely fresh or salt water will manage to get through. And even if it does, it will be another 20yrs before it manages to get the bow in the condition it was
The deck at the bow will get an extra layer of mat so 2X280gr/m2 the second will roll around and under the hatch I'm thinking of. I could make a habit of changing whatever seal I'll get for it often, so should be relatively fine. Life's too short anyway!

Will find the supplier for you ...

Alf, please do!


So, measured carefully (well as carefully as you can on a non flat curvy/slanting thing...) all dimensions. I marked on the deck with a thick felt tip marker the massive piece of timber under the deck on the centerline as well as the frames and bulkhead position.
Even went to the trouble to jump over the neighbour's boat that has the same windlass to measure it and sketch it on my deck
Placed the foot switches in a spot that whoever operates them can see the anchor coming without performing any acrobatics and still clear of the windlass. Decided that I'll probably go for a souped up version of what Nick has in his hatch to store some bits AND the spiral pipe from the shower. So I'm avoiding the extra hole for the showerhead and the dangers associated (walking on it and breaking it, etc) I was originally planning for this whale twist shower which I already bought (hot/cold though) for the transom but I may get something cheaper and drop it in the hatch.

Note that the cleats will be along the seam between the two pieces of plywood on either side around 200mm aft of the anchor locker bulkhead. Means the proposed hatch will be useable also when moored stern to with the lines in place.

Looking at it again, hatch seems to be on the large side at 350X350mm...


cheers

V.

 

[KevB]

I'd put the foot switches on a ledge in the anchor locker, gives them a bit of protection and two less holes to worry about on your new deck.

 

[rwoofer]

I'd put the foot switches on a ledge in the anchor locker, gives them a bit of protection and two less holes to worry about on your new deck.

I wouldn't. Having had foot switches on a previous boat they really need to be on a large flat surface that fits both of your feet to both be comfortable and for you to quickly release a switch. Having one foot on deck and another down a locker sounds far from ideal.

 

[KevB]

I wouldn't. Having had foot switches on a previous boat they really need to be on a large flat surface that fits both of your feet to both be comfortable and for you to quickly release a switch. Having one foot on deck and another down a locker sounds far from ideal.

My boat has the switched just underneath the anchor locker door, along with many other boats. It's no trouble to operate them and makes the bow much tidier.