burgundyben
Well-known member
Vas - how many of those drums we're your epoxy? All of them?
MiToS re-built/fit- versilcraft Mystery43
- Thread starter vas
- Start date
vas
Well-known member
Unless I find similar sized round (~280mm dia) portholes at 100euro a pop (need 10 of them!) just restore as much as I can the existing ones
It's easy to remove them even in the water, so not restricted too much on what to do later on.
currently ONLY 90lt used
bought in 4lt containers and kilo pots for the thick glue stuff.
BTW, since I cannot find ready made CPES down here, one great expense is the bleeding isopropyl alchool (isopropanol) that I'm using to built my CPES 1lt of the thing costs 15euro, more than a lt of epoxy!
Probably reach 180-200lts, but no point in believing me as I was claiming I'll finish the rebuilt within a year and in two weeks time I'll have the second anniversery of MiToS on the hard...
btw, brililant day today, glorious sunshine, 20+C so cycled to the beach at the far end of town and spent a few hours there drinking coffee, chatting and looking at the guys/gals swimming (jealous, probably go for a swim on Tue!)
cheers
V.
Robg71
New member
Your jealous... Im jealous... Ill probably go for a swim tonight.... 3degress, cold, wet n miserable
rafiki_
Well-known member
Did you find anyone capable of re-anodising?Unless I find similar sized round (~280mm dia) portholes at 100euro a pop (need 10 of them!) just restore as much as I can the existing ones
It's easy to remove them even in the water, so not restricted too much on what to do later on.
vas
Well-known member
yep, But and that's a big BUT there's bits of metal missing, I've got a good and cheap welder that can weld in material however there are tiny weld spots left once you sand them down. Not much I can do about it unless I can get some liquid ali and try it out.
in other words, unless I can recreate the shape properly without holes/hair cracks, there's no point in reanodising
and a long overdue update.
George is stuck with some other job deadlines, so I'm working alone. Pitty as the weather is brilliant still and we could finish with the top coat.
So instead I'm (slowly) labouring on the preparation of the new side decks for mat and epoxy.
It's an amazing slow process (as more or less anything I've tackled
) as originally there was a iroko rubbing strake, then under it they glued a 200mm strip of 15mm ply, and then on top of the original rubbing strake added a new one (again iroko) Only the old rubbing strake was approx20mm thick, the ply 15mm, so a 4-5mm gap, when new strake was bolted on top of the other, lots of filler used to fill up the gaps... Now, all new rubbing strake removed, old one chisseled down to the 15mm ply level, nasty bits removed, small holes/larger (ie. 50-80mm long by 6mm wide) patches repaired with new iroko, all CPESed, sanded, filled (two pack epoxy with microfibres), sanded and filled again.
Currently at a point that both sides full length is prepared as is the new (well last summer's replacement) deck and I'm starting applying the mat (280gr/m2) and epoxy. Did the first 3.7m of the stbrd side today and it went really well and smoothly. Need another 3 mornings to finish both sides up to the sundeck. The bow will be done next once the 200X15mm strip of ply is replaced where the hull was redone on the pointy bit. BTW, the mat goes up the 40mm groove where the superstructure is starting, goes all along the deck and then down the ex-rubbing strake area and all along the 200mm of the ply. Effectively this Z section will help adding extra (effectively more than was initially available...) rigidity and waterproofing to the whole superstructure base without adding serious weight. Further as I'm not so sure I'll lay teak on the side decks this time, it gives me a clean and smooth surface to apply any antislip coating I choose.
Out of curiosity tried to calculate hours I've put on this rubbing strake area repairs and I think it's about 50-60h
Once that's done (probably not by the w/e as Thu-Fri I'm teaching in the mornings, Tue-Wed is in the afternoons so no problems there
) i'll tackle the aft deck and the cabinets there to get everything sealed and waterproof. After that I'll have to concentrate on real work and take it easy on the internal refit.and the proof of me working
bow section prepared:
matt applied not fully soaked in:
final result:
cheers
V.
vas
Well-known member
2 year Anniversary!
I wonder if it's to be celebrated or commiserated
MiToS is now 2years on the hard being worked on.
I'm not going to bore you lot with what's been done, but lets say I've done more than half of them
Jobs to be done are (in rough chronological order):
Main problem is that this semester I've got 15h teaching per week nicely split in 4 days with only two mornings free. One course is new so needs a lot of preparation plus a demanding research project which means progress will be rather slow until the end of February. After that it will be 4 mornings a week at the boat till launch.
And a short report as stbrd side deck matt+epoxying was done last week and tomorrow the stbrd side will be completed .
Stbrd hull has received two coats of CPES
Port is still clean/sanded and will be done tomorrow and Monday
Ah, and for all Med bashers Monday is the last summer day down here (22C today) Tue onwards there will be lots of rain for a week or two with temps down to 12-15C by next w/e. I guess next w/e I'll have to turn the gas central heating on.
cheers
V.
I wonder if it's to be celebrated or commiserated
MiToS is now 2years on the hard being worked on.
I'm not going to bore you lot with what's been done, but lets say I've done more than half of them
Jobs to be done are (in rough chronological order):
- aft deck replacement and mat+epoxying
- ply cabinets/seating for aft deck and flybridge
- lining the bulkheads and ceiling panels.
- Fitting cabinets (galley, sofa, drawers)
- engine room painting
- finish with exhaust elbows refit
- service engines (remove exchangers and clean)
- fit passerelle
- fit watermaker
- built and fit bathing platform
- coppercoat
- top coat everywhere (due to George now officially postponed for spring)
- laying teak on decks and most likely cedar on f/b
Main problem is that this semester I've got 15h teaching per week nicely split in 4 days with only two mornings free. One course is new so needs a lot of preparation plus a demanding research project which means progress will be rather slow until the end of February. After that it will be 4 mornings a week at the boat till launch.
And a short report as stbrd side deck matt+epoxying was done last week and tomorrow the stbrd side will be completed .
Stbrd hull has received two coats of CPES
Port is still clean/sanded and will be done tomorrow and Monday
Ah, and for all Med bashers Monday is the last summer day down here (22C today
) Tue onwards there will be lots of rain for a week or two with temps down to 12-15C by next w/e. I guess next w/e I'll have to turn the gas central heating on.cheers
V.
rbcoomer
Active member
Hi Vas,
Definitely celebrated IMHO!
What you've completed so far - the epic amount of effort and commitment is a great achievement and well worth a celebration in itself. I won't ask if you would have started on it if you knew how much was involved however... I'm sure you'll find the launch celebration all the more enjoyable when you look back at all that you've refurbished, repaired and renewed - content in the knowledge she'll be good for a long while and you can sit back and enjoy. (However long it takes to get to that point.)
Temperatures of 12-15C sound positively warm to me as I ponder how to raise from 7C so I'll be able to get resin to cure...
Definitely celebrated IMHO!
What you've completed so far - the epic amount of effort and commitment is a great achievement and well worth a celebration in itself. I won't ask if you would have started on it if you knew how much was involved however...
I'm sure you'll find the launch celebration all the more enjoyable when you look back at all that you've refurbished, repaired and renewed - content in the knowledge she'll be good for a long while and you can sit back and enjoy. (However long it takes to get to that point.)Temperatures of 12-15C sound positively warm to me as I ponder how to raise from 7C so I'll be able to get resin to cure...
rafiki_
Well-known member
Yep, congratulations on 2 years hard graft, and real progress with your boat. It looks like you have broken the back of the project, and should be on course to finish off next season. Something to look forward to!
longjohnsilver
Well-known member
rafiki_
Well-known member
No! Vas can't be allowed to finish, what will we have to look forward to on here
Perhaps finish is the wrong word? I think this labour of love will never end, even when relaunched, there will be ongoing developments I hope?
LittleShip
New member
Vas
Re two years on the hard.....
When I rebuilt Little Ship it took me three years of total commitment.
As for ongoing jobs after launching.
I'm now 10 years into that
Keep going..... It never ends.
Tom
Re two years on the hard.....
When I rebuilt Little Ship it took me three years of total commitment.
As for ongoing jobs after launching.
I'm now 10 years into that
Keep going..... It never ends.
Tom
vas
Well-known member
Hi Vas,
Definitely celebrated IMHO!
What you've completed so far - the epic amount of effort and commitment is a great achievement and well worth a celebration in itself. I won't ask if you would have started on it if you knew how much was involved however...
Temperatures of 12-15C sound positively warm to me as I ponder how to raise from 7C so I'll be able to get resin to cure...
Robin, I'd still start such a project, only would try to time it differently...
Re your resins, temp is definitely an issue (although I'm not sure 10 is a bad number, may take much more time but it ought to be ok).
How are you doing in terms of humidity in the Riviera? I'd worry more about humidity rather than temp (but then again, we don't have too much of a temp issue down here
)thanks Paul for the kind words, I really should make it this coming summer
No! Vas can't be allowed to finish, what will we have to look forward to on here
Don't complain, we still have robins work, a Bonito steel puzzle, Alf's engine rebuilt and a few more projects on the go, so not too bad!
Don't forget that soon after MiToS is back in the water, JFM should be starting the new built thread on a SD or D boat
Vas
Re two years on the hard.....
When I rebuilt Little Ship it took me three years of total commitment.
As for ongoing jobs after launching.
I'm now 10 years into that
Keep going..... It never ends.
Tom
Tom, I know that such projects are never ending and indeed my previous two are still WIP (house and car).
It is a great relief to be floating though and gives more ideas for things to alter/improve/redo once using her
cheers
V.
Whitelighter
Active member
Thanks Vas.
This thread is the only reason I come here now. Really looking forward to seeing it done.
I think 2 years isn't so bad to be honest - it will be worth it.
This thread is the only reason I come here now. Really looking forward to seeing it done.
I think 2 years isn't so bad to be honest - it will be worth it.
vas
Well-known member
Morning all,
spent a couple of hours looking through the pics taken during the rebuilt so far (1200 uploaded and another 2000 filed) and was shocked at the amount of work and progress thus far... It's very easy to forget/get out of your mind all the various subprojects that have taken so many hours to complete and just concentrate on the ones ahead!
Anyway, reason for checking all the pics was to spot a few that I wanted to repost as part of work that has to be carried out and a new issue risen by a friend.
First, finishing with the mat+epoxying of the decks up to the bow area (which needs extra work to be done during winter) I reached the aft deck where there was a step bridging the 600mm level difference from aft deck. There was a serious amount of rot on the superstructure, all cleaned and new iroco used. Now primed and waiting for top coat.
Obviously water coming from the f/b, down the pilar and then to the aft deck damage was done throughout. Preparing the aft deck rebuilt phase, I tried to clean a bit the area and came up with this.
That's how it looked like before the repair on the superstructure:
after the repair:
and now cleaning (loosely) the area around the deck. I'll have to do a proper operation and repair replace timber once the deck is stripped:
Now, the Q relates to a comment by a friend who came last week. He saw the aft deck, discussed the layout with the fixed seating I'm going to add and then he noticed the holes in the transom for the mooring lines and the low cleat placement.
He argues that I should put the cleats on top of the however you call that side wall and not down where they were originally. Not on the transom, just along the side maybe 200mm from the transom.
Structurally I have no issue with that (as the rebuilt means that the stability and strength of this ledge is probably better than the sidewalls and frames...) and I have to admit that I prefer to block these holes (ply around them is not in excellent shape and will be replaced anyway!).
Further on the few times I had to use the rear cleats it was indeed a pain and not a thing I'd like to do singlehanded.
That would also help me stretch the fixed seating I'm planning to built all the way to the hull sides and not leave 400-500mm free for messing with the lines and hole...
the holes:
the cleat nicely secured on a thick beam across a few frames:
general views of the aft deck:
This sidewall/ledge whatever is around 550mm high at the sides, 620mm in the middle where the passerelle will be bolted on. This means that the cleats will be around 350mm higher than currently placed, or in other words, 1200mm from waterline. Mind my permanent mooring spot is around 400mm from the waterline, so lines have to climb up a bit but not much. From a quick check along the marina here, most 45+ mobos do have such a slope in their mooring lines and noone seems to bother.
Am I missing something or should I go ahead with that?
The ledge is around 140mm wide, needs a 15mm ply on top, an epoxy+mat and then the teak will be glued on top of that.
as always, all opinions welcomed
ah, and completely irrelevant, just found this pic and I really liked it, two weeks ago at the main parade/marina of Volos, went to pick the wife for a late lunch only to bump to a friend who was measuring the size of the sails of 43footer and certifying them for next year's racing season and ended up helping him with the measurements while the wife was having a nap in the afternoon sun
cheers
V.
spent a couple of hours looking through the pics taken during the rebuilt so far (1200 uploaded and another 2000 filed) and was shocked at the amount of work and progress thus far... It's very easy to forget/get out of your mind all the various subprojects that have taken so many hours to complete and just concentrate on the ones ahead!
Anyway, reason for checking all the pics was to spot a few that I wanted to repost as part of work that has to be carried out and a new issue risen by a friend.
First, finishing with the mat+epoxying of the decks up to the bow area (which needs extra work to be done during winter) I reached the aft deck where there was a step bridging the 600mm level difference from aft deck. There was a serious amount of rot on the superstructure, all cleaned and new iroco used. Now primed and waiting for top coat.
Obviously water coming from the f/b, down the pilar and then to the aft deck damage was done throughout. Preparing the aft deck rebuilt phase, I tried to clean a bit the area and came up with this.
That's how it looked like before the repair on the superstructure:
after the repair:
and now cleaning (loosely) the area around the deck. I'll have to do a proper operation and repair replace timber once the deck is stripped:
Now, the Q relates to a comment by a friend who came last week. He saw the aft deck, discussed the layout with the fixed seating I'm going to add and then he noticed the holes in the transom for the mooring lines and the low cleat placement.
He argues that I should put the cleats on top of the however you call that side wall and not down where they were originally. Not on the transom, just along the side maybe 200mm from the transom.
Structurally I have no issue with that (as the rebuilt means that the stability and strength of this ledge is probably better than the sidewalls and frames...) and I have to admit that I prefer to block these holes (ply around them is not in excellent shape and will be replaced anyway!).
Further on the few times I had to use the rear cleats it was indeed a pain and not a thing I'd like to do singlehanded.
That would also help me stretch the fixed seating I'm planning to built all the way to the hull sides and not leave 400-500mm free for messing with the lines and hole...
the holes:
the cleat nicely secured on a thick beam across a few frames:
general views of the aft deck:
This sidewall/ledge whatever is around 550mm high at the sides, 620mm in the middle where the passerelle will be bolted on. This means that the cleats will be around 350mm higher than currently placed, or in other words, 1200mm from waterline. Mind my permanent mooring spot is around 400mm from the waterline, so lines have to climb up a bit but not much. From a quick check along the marina here, most 45+ mobos do have such a slope in their mooring lines and noone seems to bother.
Am I missing something or should I go ahead with that?
The ledge is around 140mm wide, needs a 15mm ply on top, an epoxy+mat and then the teak will be glued on top of that.
as always, all opinions welcomed
ah, and completely irrelevant, just found this pic and I really liked it, two weeks ago at the main parade/marina of Volos, went to pick the wife for a late lunch only to bump to a friend who was measuring the size of the sails of 43footer and certifying them for next year's racing season and ended up helping him with the measurements while the wife was having a nap in the afternoon sun
cheers
V.
rafiki_
Well-known member
Vas, I think the correct term is coaming for the top ledge of the cockpit sides, although others may be along in a bit with a better bid.
It is valuable to look back and see have far you have come over the past 2 years, you have made incredible progress.
On my Snazi, the stern cleats are at coaming height, although they have fairleads to feed the warps through, so I don't believe you will have a problem making fast from there.
It is valuable to look back and see have far you have come over the past 2 years, you have made incredible progress.
On my Snazi, the stern cleats are at coaming height, although they have fairleads to feed the warps through, so I don't believe you will have a problem making fast from there.
MapisM
Well-known member
I'm not sure to understand your concern, V.
First of all, are you going to move the hawseholes from the transom to the sides, or are you thinking to route the lines through fairleads above the transom and then down to the cleats, or are you leaving the hawseholes where they are, moving only the cleats? Fwiw, I would go for the first.
Though there is an advantage in leaving the hawseholes on the transom (regardless of where the cleats are placed), and it's a more straight path for crossed lines, when you want to use them. Which in Med mooring is probably true in most cases.
Re. the lines angle from the boat to the dock, are you worried about possible boat pitching, which could create more tension on "steeper" lines compared to a more horizontal layout?
If so, that will depend from the hawseholes (or fairleads) placement, rather than the cleats, I reckon?
Anyway, I don't think a 350mm difference can be critical.
You want to stay as far as possible from the dock anyway, which in turn lengthens the lines and reduces the angle.
Besides, when cruising, you will always find docks with higher/lower bollards.
In fact, coming to think of it, 400mm from the w/l is lower than the average (unless the dock is floating).
vas
Well-known member
thanks for the comments raf and MM,
All points taken as I'm learning the terminology as I go along...
Plan is to:
A. fit the cleats on the coaming approx 200-300mm from the transom and fit fairleads at the corner moreorless just on the edge of the transom.
B. fill/close the hawseholes (thanks for the term MM ), not move them to the sides.
C. built a fixed seat (with lifting top so that I can store lines/fenders/various carp) from the one end to the other- all 3.8m of it.
MM, I see the point in keeping the hawseholes and lower cleats for cross lines and add a couple of cleats and fairleads as described BUT I'm going to loose 1m of seating
Unless I can have a flip cover down when on the way or moored and up to manage the lines when mooring, makes sense? In that way I only loose the 1m storing space under the seating, not the seating!
Re height, you are again right, I'm on a floating dock, the rest of the spaces in the marina are on .8m from w/l.
cheers
V.
All points taken as I'm learning the terminology as I go along...
Plan is to:
A. fit the cleats on the coaming approx 200-300mm from the transom and fit fairleads at the corner moreorless just on the edge of the transom.
B. fill/close the hawseholes (thanks for the term MM
), not move them to the sides.C. built a fixed seat (with lifting top so that I can store lines/fenders/various carp) from the one end to the other- all 3.8m of it.
MM, I see the point in keeping the hawseholes and lower cleats for cross lines and add a couple of cleats and fairleads as described BUT I'm going to loose 1m of seating
Unless I can have a flip cover down when on the way or moored and up to manage the lines when mooring, makes sense? In that way I only loose the 1m storing space under the seating, not the seating!
Re height, you are again right, I'm on a floating dock, the rest of the spaces in the marina are on .8m from w/l.
cheers
V.
MapisM
Well-known member
Aha, I see what you mean. Oc course, there isn't such thing as THE right or wrong setup.MM, I see the point in keeping the hawseholes and lower cleats for cross lines and add a couple of cleats and fairleads as described BUT I'm going to loose 1m of seating
But since you are in the lucky (well, sort of...
) position of being able to design whatever you prefer, you might as well consider fitting a couple of cleats each side.Below is the arrangement on my boat, just as an example.
Not necessarily the best you can think of, but imho being able to play with two separate cleats is a great bonus, particularly with Med mooring.
A couple of other thoughts:
1) as you can see, I also have a seat along the transom, and I had it built after I bought the boat, so I could have made it as long as I wished.
But I deliberately gave up the 1m of seating you are talking about (roughly 50cm each side, in fact).
And not just because the big wooden cleats would have been in the way of the seat, if I had it made as long as the transom (I could have replaced the wooden cleats with steel cleats, to solve that problem), but mostly because I wanted to keep the maneuvering area as clear as possible. And I don't regret the choice.
2) you might wish to consider fitting maneuvering winches somewhere. In the pic below, you can (barely) see it in front of the hawsehole, with the red hose winded around it.
rbcoomer
Active member
Hi Vas,
Interesting comments regarding the thread recap as I re-read your entire thread a few weeks back when you first concluded you weren't likely to launch this summer! There really is a lot of effort in those posts!
Regarding the rear seat etc I don't really have much to add, but MM's solution makes a lot of sense to me - especially when considering the stern-to berthing that is so popular around the Med - access to the stern perhaps should be a clear as possible? Had you considered any stern access door/other means of stern boarding, access to swim platform etc? I'm assuming by the space/earlier pictures that your home berth will be more 'UK-Style' of port to dock? (or starboard for that matter!) Assuming this is the case then to me, cleats and fairleads on the coaming seems a better option - as presumably you'll have springers and thus ropes will run both fore and aft? (not impossible with the hawseholes, but presumably you'd need one on the side too? On that basis, doubling up the cleats also seems to makes a lot of sense from my (albeit limited) perspective...
Regards,
Robin
Interesting comments regarding the thread recap as I re-read your entire thread a few weeks back when you first concluded you weren't likely to launch this summer! There really is a lot of effort in those posts!
Regarding the rear seat etc I don't really have much to add, but MM's solution makes a lot of sense to me - especially when considering the stern-to berthing that is so popular around the Med - access to the stern perhaps should be a clear as possible? Had you considered any stern access door/other means of stern boarding, access to swim platform etc? I'm assuming by the space/earlier pictures that your home berth will be more 'UK-Style' of port to dock? (or starboard for that matter!) Assuming this is the case then to me, cleats and fairleads on the coaming seems a better option - as presumably you'll have springers and thus ropes will run both fore and aft? (not impossible with the hawseholes, but presumably you'd need one on the side too? On that basis, doubling up the cleats also seems to makes a lot of sense from my (albeit limited) perspective...
Regards,
Robin
vas
Well-known member
OK, getting there!
MM,
that's exactly the cleat and fairlead setup I had in mind on the coaming. So, lets agree on that!
Regarding the hawsehole placement, isn't the side facing ones you have a bit excessive and demanding "rich" space to use them? Unless you cross them over to the other side (as in line from port hawsehole going over the bathing platform to the stbrd bollard in the deck), slightly confused there...
I'll probable leave the hawseholes as they are currently and the lower cleats as well.
I will also built the transom seating leaving 500mm each side and make a removable piece to go across and over the hawsehole for when I'm moored or on the way. This way I get both objectives covered plus I don't have to mess with the drains from the aft deck!
I'm always looking for a smallish capstan winch for the lower cleats, but haven't come across a cheap one yet, so I'll keep my eyes open. Not in a great hurry although access will be tricky if I want to add it at a later date.
Still need to think carefully and mess with the heights of the lines as the way I see it, hawsehole is good for cross lines and coaming cleats for main lines. Reason being that passerelle is 150mm lower that the top of the transom hence cross lines on the coaming would foul the passerelle. However I'm not so sure that cross lines wont be fouling the tender
Few more checks to do when back in Volos (just arrived to Athens for a couple of days)
Robin,
unfortunately my spot is as everywhere in Greece stern to The pics I posted on the delivery trip were simply side to as most boats were on the hard being off season, and my anchor winch was playing up...
Consequently, not much point in side access, and although I'd love a transom door, it was discarded on structural grounds. When I disassembled the mess in the transom and built the multilayer iroco beamed transom, it was obvious that structurally transom needs to be solid and sound. A door would destroy the continuity and the ability to transfer the loads from (mainly) the passerelle/tender lift. So a new ss staircase will be fabricated in due course.
cheers
V.
MM,
that's exactly the cleat and fairlead setup I had in mind on the coaming. So, lets agree on that!
Regarding the hawsehole placement, isn't the side facing ones you have a bit excessive and demanding "rich" space to use them? Unless you cross them over to the other side (as in line from port hawsehole going over the bathing platform to the stbrd bollard in the deck), slightly confused there...
I'll probable leave the hawseholes as they are currently and the lower cleats as well.
I will also built the transom seating leaving 500mm each side and make a removable piece to go across and over the hawsehole for when I'm moored or on the way. This way I get both objectives covered plus I don't have to mess with the drains from the aft deck!
I'm always looking for a smallish capstan winch for the lower cleats, but haven't come across a cheap one yet, so I'll keep my eyes open. Not in a great hurry although access will be tricky if I want to add it at a later date.
Still need to think carefully and mess with the heights of the lines as the way I see it, hawsehole is good for cross lines and coaming cleats for main lines. Reason being that passerelle is 150mm lower that the top of the transom hence cross lines on the coaming would foul the passerelle. However I'm not so sure that cross lines wont be fouling the tender
Few more checks to do when back in Volos (just arrived to Athens for a couple of days)
Robin,
unfortunately my spot is as everywhere in Greece stern to
The pics I posted on the delivery trip were simply side to as most boats were on the hard being off season, and my anchor winch was playing up... Consequently, not much point in side access, and although I'd love a transom door, it was discarded on structural grounds. When I disassembled the mess in the transom and built the multilayer iroco beamed transom, it was obvious that structurally transom needs to be solid and sound. A door would destroy the continuity and the ability to transfer the loads from (mainly) the passerelle/tender lift. So a new ss staircase will be fabricated in due course.
cheers
V.