Missing yachtswoman in South west.

maby said:
I think it has been mentioned a few times higher up this thread - not sure of the original sources, but I have seen it mentioned elsewhere on the web.
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I have seen it mentioned a few times on this thread but not seen it mentioned elsewhere on the web. I am not sure where the questions over the radio come from.

I didn't recognise the brand of VHF on the brokers' particulars (began with H?) assumed it was an older model.
 
bitbaltic said:
I have seen it mentioned a few times on this thread but not seen it mentioned elsewhere on the web. I am not sure where the questions over the radio come from.

I didn't recognise the brand of VHF on the brokers' particulars (began with H?) assumed it was an older model.
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I've seen quite a few things mentioned on this thread that are utter rubbish.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
Thaks for that. The long cushion shown certainly matches the upholstery on my Moody 31 (there cushions at the back of the saloon berths), and the rectangular piece of bevelled ply with rounded corners also matches the covers for the under-berth lockers.

I don't recognize the thick sections of what looks like foam-cored GRP, though. The decks and cabin top of the Moody 31 are balsa cored GRP; the hull is solid GRP. The only foam I can think of on board is the insulation for the calorifier and the cold-box.

The Moody has a substantial, well-designed gas-locker at the after end of the cockpit, with drainage overboard. Of course, this may have been changed, but there is usually only a single gas connection to the cooker, which is solid copper tubing except for the final flexible connection to the cooker - which is armoured hose on mine. Although a gas leak is not inconceivable, I can't see how it would happen without anyone noticing a small of gas; there is little "dead space" below the floorboards where gas could accumulate. However, not everyone can smell gas.
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Any gas detector fitted? (& working)
 
bitbaltic said:
I have seen it mentioned a few times on this thread but not seen it mentioned elsewhere on the web. I am not sure where the questions over the radio come from.

I didn't recognise the brand of VHF on the brokers' particulars (began with H?) assumed it was an older model.
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I thought I recognised it as a Husun, state of the art in 1983, when I fitted one to a new boat.
 
The many factors that have been discussed in this thread have varying degrees of importance in a post hoc discussion. Equipment standards, her physical condition, recent experience and competence, her apparent haste etc. However, in the final analysis, whatever happened, however the lady was lost overboard – and I have to assume that there is no Machiavellian sub-plot - one fact is undeniable. She made some bad decisions regarding weather and sea state bearing in mind that once past Newlyn, there were no suitable ports of refuge for a fine keel yacht until well up the north facing coast.

I am not saying that she could not have succeeded. I am saying that she greatly lessened her chances of succeeding by going when she did. Having a deadline is a recipe for bad seagoing decisions.
 
longjohnsilver said:
Btw, the broker interviewed last night was definitely male, re a post further up, .
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-19944635

On that BBC news report, on the right hand side the direct quote was from a "Jayne Hobkirk" :- Admittedly Jayne can be a man's name, but I was taking the path of least resistance by assuming Jayne = female :)

Digression though.

+1 Brian, I'm sure regardless of some thoughtless posts speculating, everyone is thinking of those affected.
 
franksingleton said:
The many factors that have been discussed in this thread have varying degrees of importance in a post hoc discussion. Equipment standards, her physical condition, recent experience and competence, her apparent haste etc. However, in the final analysis, whatever happened, however the lady was lost overboard – and I have to assume that there is no Machiavellian sub-plot - one fact is undeniable. She made some bad decisions regarding weather and sea state bearing in mind that once past Newlyn, there were no suitable ports of refuge for a fine keel yacht until well up the north facing coast.

I am not saying that she could not have succeeded. I am saying that she greatly lessened her chances of succeeding by going when she did. Having a deadline is a recipe for bad seagoing decisions.
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Not necessarily.

I post this with no special knowledge of this incident, but until her body is found (and even then) cause of death cannot be established - so there is simply no way of knowing.

Last year, a very nice yacht was watched sailing straight into cliffs - the solo sailor on board had had a heart attack and was already dead. Such things do happen.

In which case, the weather was pretty much irrelevant.
 
fisherman said:
I thought I recognised it as a Husun, state of the art in 1983, when I fitted one to a new boat.
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Had a Husun in my last boat, excellent piece of kit, liked it so much I transferred it from each of my previous 2 boats.

This thread is a bit like Chinese whispers. We will probably never know what happened, seems that some are still saying the forecast was bad when it actually wasn't + lots of speculation, understandable in the circumstances, but speculation all the same.

A very difficult and sad time for the family and friends of Mrs Unwin. Our thoughts are with you.
 
alant said:
Any gas detector fitted? (& working)
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That would be a matter of whether an owner had fitted one; there certainly isn't one as standard equipment. But provided people have a normal sense of smell, there isn't enough dead space on a Moody 31 for a significant accumulation of gas to go undetected. The space below the floor-boards is only a few inches deep,even where the sump for the bilge-pump is. It is also narrower everywhere than the distance between the saloon berths; the total volume is a few cubic feet. If there was an escape of gas enough to cause an explosion, the boat would stink! Even the tiny release of gas when I fail to light the cooker quickly is noticeable. And the cabin floor is the lowest part of the boat, so any gas would flow into the cabin.

I don't have a gas detector on mine, and can't really see a need for one as I can smell gas, though I do recognize that some people can't. I do have a CO detector, but that's a different kettle of fish entirely.

The thing that troubles me is that the wreckage found seems to indicate total disintegration of the vessel; the bits pictured are from within the saloon, and the cushion is large enough not to readily go through a breach in the hull. There are large pieces of apparently broken up GRP as well. A Moody 31 is massively over-engineered; they really are VERY strong boats, and even a gas explosion wouldn't cause that much devastation. The Crash Test boat wasn't blown into pieces by a gas explosion, and remained afloat and even (maybe) capable of navigation; I am sure the Moody 31 is at least as strong as the Crash Test boat, and probably stronger.

I can only see two scenarios that would result in the level of destruction seen: running ashore or collision. And even running ashore on rocks might well not cause that level of destruction for several hours, during which time the wreck would be observeable.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
That would be a matter of whether an owner had fitted one; there certainly isn't one as standard equipment. But provided people have a normal sense of smell, there isn't enough dead space on a Moody 31 for a significant accumulation of gas to go undetected. The space below the floor-boards is only a few inches deep,even where the sump for the bilge-pump is. It is also narrower everywhere than the distance between the saloon berths; the total volume is a few cubic feet. If there was an escape of gas enough to cause an explosion, the boat would stink! Even the tiny release of gas when I fail to light the cooker quickly is noticeable. And the cabin floor is the lowest part of the boat, so any gas would flow into the cabin.

I don't have a gas detector on mine, and can't really see a need for one as I can smell gas, though I do recognize that some people can't. I do have a CO detector, but that's a different kettle of fish entirely.

The thing that troubles me is that the wreckage found seems to indicate total disintegration of the vessel; the bits pictured are from within the saloon, and the cushion is large enough not to readily go through a breach in the hull. There are large pieces of apparently broken up GRP as well. A Moody 31 is massively over-engineered; they really are VERY strong boats, and even a gas explosion wouldn't cause that much devastation. The Crash Test boat wasn't blown into pieces by a gas explosion, and remained afloat and even (maybe) capable of navigation; I am sure the Moody 31 is at least as strong as the Crash Test boat, and probably stronger.

I can only see two scenarios that would result in the level of destruction seen: running ashore or collision. And even running ashore on rocks might well not cause that level of destruction for several hours, during which time the wreck would be observeable.
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If the boat ran ashore at say 9pm , it would be aground for at least 9 hours before being visible in the daylight, If the groundswell was 1.5 m this would produce a pretty powerful break at Sennen, but I like wise wondered why one of the first things that appeared was the saloon table.
 
I would think being washed onto rocks would soon reduce the strongest of GRP boats to that kind of wreckage.
There are lots of places where the yacht might not be seen for a couple of hours.

Equally, a gas explosion might have done it. The stronger the boat, the worse the damage in some cases. An explosion that is contained by something fairly strong builds up more pressure than one in a weak container.
But I would have expected a gas explosion to result in sinking in deep water. Perhaps.
 
lw395 said:
I would think being washed onto rocks would soon reduce the strongest of GRP boats to that kind of wreckage.
There are lots of places where the yacht might not be seen for a couple of hours.

Equally, a gas explosion might have done it. The stronger the boat, the worse the damage in some cases. An explosion that is contained by something fairly strong builds up more pressure than one in a weak container.
But I would have expected a gas explosion to result in sinking in deep water. Perhaps.
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It's difficult to be sure; there have been plenty of cases of yachts being grounded on rocks and still being successfully refloated after considerable delays. But I do not know the area - I've never even visited that part of Cornwall - and I know it has a bad reputation as a wrecking coast.

It's the implication of total disintegration that puzzles me, though. Certainly I can imagine the boat being badly holed and sinking, but it is the scale of destruction that bothers me; it almost looks as if the boat must have been torn in two!

I see your point about a gas explosion, but it really is a long shot on the Moody. The gas installation is (on a standard boat) very simple and very well isolated from the interior space, the piping runs through space not used for other purposes (and so not subject to mechanical abrasion), and enough gas to cause an explosion would certainly be noticed by any occupant of the saloon! On the Crash Test boat, one of the problems they encountered was creating the conditions for a gas explosion in the first place. I don't rule it out, but the lack of fire-damage on the interior fittings recovered coupled with the design of the Moody 31 does minimize the likelihood.

I am not in a position to judge the probability of collision with another vessel, but I'd certainly consider it.
 
jimi said:
If the boat ran ashore at say 9pm , it would be aground for at least 9 hours before being visible in the daylight, If the groundswell was 1.5 m this would produce a pretty powerful break at Sennen, but I like wise wondered why one of the first things that appeared was the saloon table.
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Pointless conjecture, but remember the tide was HW Penzance at 1550 on Saturday, 0412 Sunday. 2100, low water, the fragments would disappear on the flood. Given the ground sea I would expect the boat to disintegrate and the fragments get sucked back into deeper water as the tide came in. Remember the swell will be much higher in shallow water than logged at eg Seven Stones. The only real clue would be to find the engine, and there must be a fuel/oil slick somewhere. I am very surprised that shoreline searches have not found anything, would seem to suggest hitting an offshore reef, maybe even the one outside Sennen breakwater.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
It's difficult to be sure; there have been plenty of cases of yachts being grounded on rocks and still being successfully refloated after considerable delays. But I do not know the area - I've never even visited that part of Cornwall - and I know it has a bad reputation as a wrecking coast.

It's the implication of total disintegration that puzzles me, though. Certainly I can imagine the boat being badly holed and sinking, but it is the scale of destruction that bothers me; it almost looks as if the boat must have been torn in two!

I see your point about a gas explosion, but it really is a long shot on the Moody. The gas installation is (on a standard boat) very simple and very well isolated from the interior space, the piping runs through space not used for other purposes (and so not subject to mechanical abrasion), and enough gas to cause an explosion would certainly be noticed by any occupant of the saloon! On the Crash Test boat, one of the problems they encountered was creating the conditions for a gas explosion in the first place. I don't rule it out, but the lack of fire-damage on the interior fittings recovered coupled with the design of the Moody 31 does minimize the likelihood.

I am not in a position to judge the probability of collision with another vessel, but I'd certainly consider it.
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Having sailed many times around that corner, the sight of the Longships , particularly when heading northward, always gives me the shivers & concentrates my mind - not a nice place for a mishap.
 
franksingleton said:
The many factors that have been discussed in this thread have varying degrees of importance in a post hoc discussion. Equipment standards, her physical condition, recent experience and competence, her apparent haste etc. However, in the final analysis, whatever happened, however the lady was lost overboard – and I have to assume that there is no Machiavellian sub-plot - one fact is undeniable. She made some bad decisions regarding weather and sea state bearing in mind that once past Newlyn, there were no suitable ports of refuge for a fine keel yacht until well up the north facing coast.

I am not saying that she could not have succeeded. I am saying that she greatly lessened her chances of succeeding by going when she did. Having a deadline is a recipe for bad seagoing decisions.
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It would seem that, although not ideal she probably picked as good a weather window as she was likely to get this time of year so her haste might perhaps have been due to her hope to complete the passage before it worsened, as indeed it has.
 
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