Misinformation about seacocks

[Tranona]

Many of you know that I post regularly about seacocks and corrosion.

Just in case you think I am on a hobby horse suggest you look at the article on p50 of the current edition of PBO. It is riddled with mistakes and misinformation on the subject. Just as I stated in the recent thread on the subject journalists and some surveyors do not understand the subject and spread misinformation that gets stuck in peoples' minds.

This is at least the third time this particular author has written things that are simply not true. On 2 occasions in the past (one in YM and the other in PBO), Vyv and I have written correcting them, and in both cases corrections were published. I shall do so again, particularly because there is new misinformation in this article in addition to that previously published.

 

[vyv_cox]

Many of you know that I post regularly about seacocks and corrosion.

Just in case you think I am on a hobby horse suggest you look at the article on p50 of the current edition of PBO. It is riddled with mistakes and misinformation on the subject. Just as I stated in the recent thread on the subject journalists and some surveyors do not understand the subject and spread misinformation that gets stuck in peoples' minds.

This is at least the third time this particular author has written things that are simply not true. On 2 occasions in the past (one in YM and the other in PBO), Vyv and I have written correcting them, and in both cases corrections were published. I shall do so again, particularly because there is new misinformation in this article in addition to that previously published.

I have not read the latest issue but I feel certain I know the surveyor in question. He seems to think that DZR and 60/40 brass are the same material.

 

[Tranona]

I have not read the latest issue but I feel certain I know the surveyor in question. He seems to think that DZR and 60/40 brass are the same material.

Yes and DZR seemingly has a CE mark that says they are safe for 5 years. Then DZR Blakes valves suffer from dezincification and stainless bolts should not be used.

Will do a detailed critique for the editor.

 

[Plum]

Many of you know that I post regularly about seacocks and corrosion.

Just in case you think I am on a hobby horse suggest you look at the article on p50 of the current edition of PBO. It is riddled with mistakes and misinformation on the subject. Just as I stated in the recent thread on the subject journalists and some surveyors do not understand the subject and spread misinformation that gets stuck in peoples' minds.

This is at least the third time this particular author has written things that are simply not true. On 2 occasions in the past (one in YM and the other in PBO), Vyv and I have written correcting them, and in both cases corrections were published. I shall do so again, particularly because there is new misinformation in this article in addition to that previously published.

Thanks to you, Vyv and the majority of the contributors of this forum there is a wealth of excellent and reliable information freely shared by those who want to help others. Thanks also to you for taking the time to highlight the mistakes and misinformation to the magazine. The article made me cringe. The journalists and editors obviously do not have the knowledge to challenge what their contributors submit. They did print a piece from me in the last edition pointing out the dangerous misinformation they published about HM Coastguard 2 months earlier but the damage had already been done and I expect similar misinformation will get published again if resubmitted .

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[Daydream believer]

Yes and DZR seemingly has a CE mark that says they are safe for 5 years. Then DZR Blakes valves suffer from dezincification and stainless bolts should not be used.

Have not read the article so do not know the connection that you refer to between stainless bolts & blakes fittings. However, it jogged my mind because the Sadler 34 next to me on the hard this winter has a Blake's seacock secured with stainless bolts. He has spent some time cutting the outer part of the hull to remove the bolts, outwards, as they have failed where they pass through the seacock. The owner's wife hit the top of one bolt with a metal object by mistake. To her surprise the bolt sheared off because it had become weak in some way.
Whether that is in keeping with findings from our OP, or the PBO author, I have no idea. But whilst raising the subject, it may suggest that others may wish to check theirs, if similarly fastened.
He has replaced with bronze bolts & glassed over externally & made good the coppercoat antifoul coating

 

[vyv_cox]

Have not read the article so do not know the connection that you refer to between stainless bolts & blakes fittings. However, it jogged my mind because the Sadler 34 next to me on the hard this winter has a Blake's seacock secured with stainless bolts. He has spent some time cutting the outer part of the hull to remove the bolts, outwards, as they have failed where they pass through the seacock. The owner's wife hit the top of one bolt with a metal object by mistake. To her surprise the bolt sheared off because it had become weak in some way.
Whether that is in keeping with findings from our OP, or the PBO author, I have no idea. But whilst raising the subject, it may suggest that others may wish to check theirs, if similarly fastened.
He has replaced with bronze bolts & glassed over externally & made good the coppercoat antifoul coating

Every underwater bolt on my Sadler 34 is stainless. That is 3 x Blakes seacocks, the P-bracket, skeg and rudder shoe. All are 40 years old and appear to be in good condition. I have removed the P-bracket and rudder shoe and found all the bolts good.

The failure you describe sounds like stress corrosion due to moisture, rather than total immersion. Common in bolts on deck especially through wood. Some good examples on my website. Good

 

[geem]

Every underwater bolt on my Sadler 34 is stainless. That is 3 x Blakes seacocks, the P-bracket, skeg and rudder shoe. All are 40 years old and appear to be in good condition. I have removed the P-bracket and rudder shoe and found all the bolts good.

The failure you describe sounds like stress corrosion due to moisture, rather than total immersion. Common in bolts on deck especially through wood. Some good examples on my website. Good

Yep, my anode is secured with 316 stainless steel bolts. I remove them when we are in the yard. They always look perfect. Been using the same bolts for the last 11 years now. No need to change them.
The keel shoe on our skeg hung rudder is 316 stainless. Never any sign of corrosion. 43 years old.
316 Stainless 1/4 turn ball valves as seacocks threaded to bronze through hulls. Been installed for several years. Removed in 2020 for inspection. Perfect condition.

 

[Plum]

Many of you know that I post regularly about seacocks and corrosion.

Just in case you think I am on a hobby horse suggest you look at the article on p50 of the current edition of PBO. It is riddled with mistakes and misinformation on the subject. Just as I stated in the recent thread on the subject journalists and some surveyors do not understand the subject and spread misinformation that gets stuck in peoples' minds.

This is at least the third time this particular author has written things that are simply not true. On 2 occasions in the past (one in YM and the other in PBO), Vyv and I have written correcting them, and in both cases corrections were published. I shall do so again, particularly because there is new misinformation in this article in addition to that previously published.

I assume you wrote to them again with corrections. Did anything happen?

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[Poignard]

When you buy a Blakes seacock it comes complete with nuts and bolts to secure it to the hull.

I don't understand why would you not use what is supplied.

[Unless your seacocks are glassed in, as some of mine are.]

 

[Wansworth]

Maybe time for a pull out guide to such an important part…….correctly written

 

[Tranona]

I assume you wrote to them again with corrections. Did anything happen?

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

Vyv did and I followed up with an email. Yet to see any correction.

 

[Tranona]

When you buy a Blakes seacock it comes complete with nuts and bolts to secure it to the hull.

I don't understand why would you not use what is supplied.

[Unless your seacocks are glassed in, as some of mine are.]

That is correct about current aftermarket, but "in the day" they were supplied to builders without fastenings as some glassed them in and others (like on Vyv's Sadler) used 316 fastenings. Replacement bronze fastenings are hideously expensive so 316 is fine if you do need replacement.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Maybe time for a pull out guide to such an important part…….correctly written

There are far better on line and paper based sources of reliable information e.g. Nigel Calder’s books, Vyv Cox’s web site, Marine How To web site.

 

[PabloPicasso]

Keep up the good work Tranona & Vyv!!

 

[srm]

There are far better on line and paper based sources of reliable information e.g. Nigel Calder’s books, Vyv Cox’s web site, Marine How To web site.

Yes, yet is it not reasonable to expect established magazines to only publish factually correct information, even more so when that information could influence the watertight integrity and safety of the boat and crew?

As to surveyors, the last survey on my boat demonstrated just how little the guy knew or understood, just a computer pro-forma exercise with a large part of it being left overs from previous reports.

 

[Snowgoose-1]

Do thee Blakes people for example ask the publishers to make good the corrections ? You would expect them to if there are errors.

 

[vyv_cox]

Do thee Blakes people for example ask the publishers to make good the corrections ? You would expect them to if there are errors.

The most glaring error is the absence of recognition that DZR and 60/40 brass are not the same. This would not be a concern for Blakes.

 

[Tranona]

Do thee Blakes people for example ask the publishers to make good the corrections ? You would expect them to if there are errors.

The information was broadly correct on Blakes but he was confused about the change from bronze to DZR which happened so long ago as to be irrelevant.

 

[Wansworth]

Yes, yet is it not reasonable to expect established magazines to only publish factually correct information, even more so when that information could influence the watertight integrity and safety of the boat and crew?

As to surveyors, the last survey on my boat demonstrated just how little the guy knew or understood, just a computer pro-forma exercise with a large part of it being left overs from previous reports.

Are the t time served in shipyards or boatbuilders or just read a book and done a course?

 

[Tranona]

Yes, yet is it not reasonable to expect established magazines to only publish factually correct information, even more so when that information could influence the watertight integrity and safety of the boat and crew?

As to surveyors, the last survey on my boat demonstrated just how little the guy knew or understood, just a computer pro-forma exercise with a large part of it being left overs from previous reports.

The particular author who is also a surveyor often gets things confused. His "expert opinion" on the review of the Bavaria 33 last year (a boat I know rather well) was full of errors. Another more recent one described a model that was completely different from the one under review.

Don't think they have the critical readership they had in the past so these things just slide past.