john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
If youve got the injector out, does that mean you'd like me to bring my Diesel Engine Compression tester back up to Scotland when I fly up on Sunday evening?
md1 wont start
- Thread starter gavin400
- Start date
scottie
Well-Known Member
Watch out as unlike petrol engines diesel compression testers will only be of use if you have the correct adapter which is like a dummy injector
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
My tester has a rack of dummy injectors for this purpose. Of course it will be Sod's law to find that none of them fit! However for the cost of a packet of biscuits I might know where to get one machined....
scottie
Well-Known Member
Your resources are deep indeed (well sometimes)
gavin400
Well-Known Member
John
Thats a very kind offer - I'm going to have a go at a couple of things today to see if I can get it started.
Can I please get back to you re the compression kit depending on how I get on.
Many thanks
Gavin
Halo
Well-Known Member
Well the forum has certainly pulled together on this one !
I loved my old MD1; when it was running and you went below for a kip it was like being back in the womb with the steady and reassuring thump thump thump like a mother's heart beat. It would go for hours on a drop of juice and was built like a brick outhouse.
However after 40 years of hard labour it had had enough and the replacement Beta made her a much better boat for getting places and keeping the batteries charged up.
Could be time to cash in the premium bonds and get a new engine??
Martin
I loved my old MD1; when it was running and you went below for a kip it was like being back in the womb with the steady and reassuring thump thump thump like a mother's heart beat. It would go for hours on a drop of juice and was built like a brick outhouse.
However after 40 years of hard labour it had had enough and the replacement Beta made her a much better boat for getting places and keeping the batteries charged up.
Could be time to cash in the premium bonds and get a new engine??
Martin
Applescruffs
Well-Known Member
Hi,
if it helps I have a spare injector that you could try....but beware....they come in two lengths for the MD1....I know as I have both !!
PM me if you would like me to send one up to you to try....
All the best.
if it helps I have a spare injector that you could try....but beware....they come in two lengths for the MD1....I know as I have both !!
PM me if you would like me to send one up to you to try....
All the best.
gavin400
Well-Known Member
well todays update is as follows:
Couldn't try the injector to see if it was spraying fuel as the fuel lines don't provide enough flexibility, so I refitted the injector and bled the fuel system.
There is plenty of fuel getting to the injector.
I removed the exhaust at the manifold and checked for blockages ( both within the engine and within the exhaust), all seems fine.
I removed the air filter and checked for blockages, all seems fine.
I left the exhaust disconnected, squirted engine oil in via the air intake and turned the engine over.
I tried various throttle settings, cold start on and off.
There is plenty of smoke from the exhaust manifold (so, it's either getting fuel or its the oil I squirted in?), but no starting.
The engine does sound a bit more healthy with a few coughs and splutters - this change in noise may only be because the exhaust is disconnected, or it may be wishfull thinking!
I was hand cranking, so maybe i just didn't get enough speed up (although I was going as fast as I normally do when the engine used to start)- about 30degrees bent double in a stifling cabin is not conducive to hand cranking!
Tomorrows plan is to re-check the throttle settings again, install a fully charged battery!, try fresh fuel
Will keep everyone informed and thanks for the continuing support
Gavin
Couldn't try the injector to see if it was spraying fuel as the fuel lines don't provide enough flexibility, so I refitted the injector and bled the fuel system.
There is plenty of fuel getting to the injector.
I removed the exhaust at the manifold and checked for blockages ( both within the engine and within the exhaust), all seems fine.
I removed the air filter and checked for blockages, all seems fine.
I left the exhaust disconnected, squirted engine oil in via the air intake and turned the engine over.
I tried various throttle settings, cold start on and off.
There is plenty of smoke from the exhaust manifold (so, it's either getting fuel or its the oil I squirted in?), but no starting.
The engine does sound a bit more healthy with a few coughs and splutters - this change in noise may only be because the exhaust is disconnected, or it may be wishfull thinking!
I was hand cranking, so maybe i just didn't get enough speed up (although I was going as fast as I normally do when the engine used to start)- about 30degrees bent double in a stifling cabin is not conducive to hand cranking!
Tomorrows plan is to re-check the throttle settings again, install a fully charged battery!, try fresh fuel
Will keep everyone informed and thanks for the continuing support
Gavin
gavin400
Well-Known Member
That is a very kind offer - I will come back to you if my weekend efforts are to no avail.
Gavin
Searush
Well-Known Member
If your injector nozzle is partially blocked then fuel will be dribbling out rather than spraying in a fine mist which will make it unlikely to start. Take that injector for a nozzle spray test & cleaning/ replacement. It isn't that dear 20-50 quid at a guess depending on if it only needs cleaning or replacing.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
I strongly agree. Any diesel shop and most any good garage should be able to check the injector spray pattern and function. Checking it shouldn't be more than a few £. I would be verg surprised if it was anywhere near £50. That should nearly buy you a new injector! They should/might be able to do it on the spot.
gavin400
Well-Known Member
John and Applescruffs, many many thanks for your kind offers - have spoken to the local garage and they are going to get the injector cleaned/serviced (they send it to a place in glasgow)
So my plan is to try various things today/tomorrow and if all else fails I will drop the injector off to the local guy on Sun and will have it back by next weekend
Will keep you all updated re progress
Gavin
So my plan is to try various things today/tomorrow and if all else fails I will drop the injector off to the local guy on Sun and will have it back by next weekend
Will keep you all updated re progress
Gavin
Searush
Well-Known Member
I'm astonished it has to go to Glasgow, but I guess you are up on the west coast somewhere very remote.
And, yes John Morris the top end 50 squid estimate was for a REPLACEMENT injector.
And, yes John Morris the top end 50 squid estimate was for a REPLACEMENT injector.
gavin400
Well-Known Member
Today I started with fresh fuel and a fully charged battery, checked throttle settings, bled the fuel system.
With the engine spinning fairly quickly, if I squirt engine oil into the engine via the air inlet it comes agonisingly close to firing but doesn't quite get there.
If I try without the oil, there is significantly more reluctance to fire.
What do you think this signifies?
One thought that crossed my mind is that if the oil level falls below a certain level then the engine won't start - I presume this is some form of safety cut out device, and it must be mechanical as the engine doesn't rely on electrics?
I can't see any mention of this in the owners or workshop manual.
I' m now wondering if this device is stuck in the 'cut off' position (the engine does have plenty of oil) thus preventing the engine from starting.
Has anyone any experience of such a thing?
Many thanks
Gavin
With the engine spinning fairly quickly, if I squirt engine oil into the engine via the air inlet it comes agonisingly close to firing but doesn't quite get there.
If I try without the oil, there is significantly more reluctance to fire.
What do you think this signifies?
One thought that crossed my mind is that if the oil level falls below a certain level then the engine won't start - I presume this is some form of safety cut out device, and it must be mechanical as the engine doesn't rely on electrics?
I can't see any mention of this in the owners or workshop manual.
I' m now wondering if this device is stuck in the 'cut off' position (the engine does have plenty of oil) thus preventing the engine from starting.
Has anyone any experience of such a thing?
Many thanks
Gavin
VicS
Well-Known Member
No I'm sure there is no such safety device
It may be coming close to firing when engine oil is squirted in because that is sealing the rings and improving the compression.
I'd think your trouble is one of three things.
Defective injector, insufficient pressure being produced by the injection pump or the timing all to cock. Since you have done nothing as far as we know to upset the timing that leaves the other two.
But I suppose it could be poor compression due to bore, piston or ring wear or due to a valve not closing properly
It may be coming close to firing when engine oil is squirted in because that is sealing the rings and improving the compression.
I'd think your trouble is one of three things.
Defective injector, insufficient pressure being produced by the injection pump or the timing all to cock. Since you have done nothing as far as we know to upset the timing that leaves the other two.
But I suppose it could be poor compression due to bore, piston or ring wear or due to a valve not closing properly
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MM5AHO
Well-Known Member
Normally where there is a low lubricating oil cutoff system it's a solenoid on the fuel line. Activated by a low oil pressure switch that activates the relay closing the fuel supply.
But this wouldn't normally activate on starting (otherwise you'd never get started), and as you said you had fuel in the line to the injector, its ruled out. I don't think that MD1 has that setup. Many Listers do though.
That injector seems the most likely bet from info so far.
But this wouldn't normally activate on starting (otherwise you'd never get started), and as you said you had fuel in the line to the injector, its ruled out. I don't think that MD1 has that setup. Many Listers do though.
That injector seems the most likely bet from info so far.
Applescruffs
Well-Known Member
One thought that crossed my mind is that if the oil level falls below a certain level then the engine won't start - I presume this is some form of safety cut out device, and it must be mechanical as the engine doesn't rely on electrics?
Sorry Gavin....no such thing on the MD1...it's a very basic engine.....it hasn't even got an oil filter let alone a cut out device !
get the injector checked...as I say I have two that you can try...one...the shorter of the two ....has just been serviced/refurbished....cost around £40...it looks like new, the other is fine and gives a good three point spray....
All the best.
Sorry Gavin....no such thing on the MD1...it's a very basic engine.....it hasn't even got an oil filter let alone a cut out device !
get the injector checked...as I say I have two that you can try...one...the shorter of the two ....has just been serviced/refurbished....cost around £40...it looks like new, the other is fine and gives a good three point spray....
All the best.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
We had an MD7A with all these symptoms once upon a time. It was lack of compression in the end.
Kurrawong_Kid
Well-Known Member
I once had an MD2B die on me because the cold start button "extension" got the wrong side of the control lever behind the plate on the back of the engine. Once replaced the correct side the engine ran fine.
Since you freed off the control button during the winter have you inadvertently done this? In effect if the button is the wrong side of the lever it is the same as shutting the engine down with the throttle cable. This would explain why it wont start.
Since you freed off the control button during the winter have you inadvertently done this? In effect if the button is the wrong side of the lever it is the same as shutting the engine down with the throttle cable. This would explain why it wont start.
TQA
Well-Known Member
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Here is a real last resort trick. It was demonstrated to me an Irish gaffer as we were trying to retrieve a large digger that had got caught out by the tide and spent 6 hours submerged.
We needed to get the engine running and it was almost going but not quite, He removed the air filter, produced his copy of the Sun and removed page 3. He crumpled up three or four pages and poured a little diesel over them. He then put them in the air cleaner and set them on fire. Once the fire was going he put the top back on and told us to give her a go. It started within seconds. The exhaust was ' interesting' for about 20 seconds then settled down.
This merely replicated what the old CAV Thermostart did.
Anyway I offer it as a last resort option.
We needed to get the engine running and it was almost going but not quite, He removed the air filter, produced his copy of the Sun and removed page 3. He crumpled up three or four pages and poured a little diesel over them. He then put them in the air cleaner and set them on fire. Once the fire was going he put the top back on and told us to give her a go. It started within seconds. The exhaust was ' interesting' for about 20 seconds then settled down.
This merely replicated what the old CAV Thermostart did.
Anyway I offer it as a last resort option.
