McMurdo PLB battery replacement....

[Simondjuk]

If your sailing watches in a gale at night then perhaps you should seriously consider one. But for the vast majority the closest they'll get to a gale is a pint in a local pub let alone sailing watches through one.

Any passage involving a night and a day might involve a watch system. That means a trip from the south coast to the CIs might require one. Hardly a voyage suitable only for the intrepid passage maker.

Anything more than 12 hours is likely to involve hours of darkness. 60 miles. Again, local stuff.

Last time I came back from Alderney, the forecast was F4/5. Two hours later we were enjoying a sleigh ride in 45 to 50 knots. The gales don't care if you don't want to sail in them.

 

[Simondjuk]

He raymarine life tags might be a little more appropriate along with personal flares. But probably best to ensure ppl are
Clipped on before coming on deck.

Don't plan to save the stupid. Plan to avoid the stupidity

The Life Tag system serves a purpose, in the scenario I recounted, I'd have known a MOB had occurred, finding them would have been the issue. There it doesn't help.

Personal flares might save the day, but by the time the person in the water got round to using them, they may be some way off. Some packs give 3 shots, to 45 metres with a burn of 6 seconds each. In a big sea, if you're not within a swell or two of them, which would be a very good effort given the approximate nature of sailing toward a flare which may have been fired at a considerable angle from the surface and gives a narrow time window in which to take a bearing, before all 3 are fired, you're back to square one, only lacking the one aid you had the first time.

 

[LadyInBed]

I love the logic, Lady In Bed!

Because I think that the PLB is a great little gadget that's likely to save your life when there's nothing else left that will, and not next to useless if you only sail in Europe as some seem keen to convince everyone, I must be at the incredibly risk averse end of the scale.

Not my words!
From your previous posts I think it is fair to say that you assessment of risk situations is a fair bit higher than mine.

Consider the following scenario before jumping to conclusions about my psyche:

I cannot relate to the scenario you describe as it isn't the way I sail!
If people feel sick, they use a bucket.
If it's dark, raining, blowing a gale and rough, people clip on before they leave the saloon
you know the boat's engine cannot be started - I wouldn't have left port in the first place!

The rest of your scenario is then superfluous, but you should take up short story writing, I think you have a promising future.

Incidentally, I've also jumped out of a perfectly good aircraft, but perhaps it doesn't count as I was strapped to someone else.

Oh! it definitely counts, similar to having a MOB and jumping in after him

 

[Simondjuk]

Lady In Bed,

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that the words implying that PLBs are ueless were yours. Merely that your idea that my belief in the PLB as a good, viable piece of emergency kit gives an indication of where I fall in the human spectrum between the overly cautious and the dangerously reckless was somewhat oversimplifed.


If people feel sick, they use a bucket.
Agreed. They may even use my pocket rather than rush halfway over the rail.

If it's dark, raining, blowing a gale and rough, people clip on before they leave the saloon
Again, agreed. Seems sensible..

you know the boat's engine cannot be started - I wouldn't have left port in the first place!
Thrice, agreed. Sailing out of marinas can be tricky.

In this instance, sudden panic on top of tiredness and illness got the better of the crew member and their senses briefly left them. As for the engine, it had only refused to start for the first time an hour or two previously. It was one of those moments in life where suddenly the holes in the cheese seemed to be lining up. Luckily, that day, not all of them did, but it was an insight nonetheless.

 

[fireball]

Any passage involving a night and a day might involve a watch system. That means a trip from the south coast to the CIs might require one. Hardly a voyage suitable only for the intrepid passage maker.

Anything more than 12 hours is likely to involve hours of darkness. 60 miles. Again, local stuff.

Last time I came back from Alderney, the forecast was F4/5. Two hours later we were enjoying a sleigh ride in 45 to 50 knots. The gales don't care if you don't want to sail in them.

Unusual to use a watch system for x channel. My longest time was 18 hours and that was into a f6-7 in a 30'er. Had I not had experienced crew onboard I would have aborted. I knew what the wind, forecast ad waves were going to be before crossing. I don't think I've been significantly caught out with a 12hr wind forecast. Whether you'd consider x channel "local" will be down to the skipper and crew ability

 

[Talulah]

Unusual to use a watch system for x channel. My longest time was 18 hours and that was into a f6-7 in a 30'er. Had I not had experienced crew onboard I would have aborted. I knew what the wind, forecast ad waves were going to be before crossing. I don't think I've been significantly caught out with a 12hr wind forecast. Whether you'd consider x channel "local" will be down to the skipper and crew ability

I would say most of our x-channels use a watch system for the following reasons which may not apply to you.
Firstly, the trip out is usually a Friday night after a day at work. So once we've cleared Bembridge I'm down below to get some kip. Ideally I won't be a member of any watch so I can get a full nights kip ... meant to say 'be on hand refreshed should something happen.'
The trip back invariably leaves France at about 4am. Not everyone needs to be up and since I rarely drink I'm usually up with one other. Later on I want a kip due to the late night before.

 

[LadyInBed]

I would say most of our x-channels use a watch system for the following reasons which may not apply to you.
Firstly, the trip out is usually a Friday night after a day at work.

Starting Friday night after a day at work is indeed often the case, but I don't get the luxury of a full nights kip as, if I have any crew, normally only one of them is a 'sailor', so we do 3 or 4 hours about, though I have done Poole - Cherbourg on my own after a days work.

Simon reckons that

Any passage involving a night and a day might involve a watch system. That means a trip from the south coast to the CIs might require one.

I do not agree. I have often gone down to Guernsey on my own, and use it as a stop off for Jersey or St Malo. A 16 to 18 hour passage in fair weather isn't any real strain on my body.

Gee! Hasn't this drifted from battery replacement! - sorry Photodog.

 

[PhillM]

Yet you take a greater risk (IMHO) everytime you drive them in the car. Far more accidents and fatalities happen in cars than leisure boats in the uk.

I can understand your concern, the choice is always down to the skipper but you're over limiting yourself by needing the kit (unless you can afford it). The anxiety will be there for the first trips out but confidence in your ability and the capabilities of the boat will grow as you do them. So long as u sail well within both then it won't be an issue. Of course a lr would help as would an epirb. But you can all but eliminate the need by your other actions.

I agree with everything you have said. My point is that I CAN afford the kit so I SHOULD have it. I agree it wont help overcome anxiety on longer / new trips but I would never forgive myself if anything happened.

I suppose its the same as buying the newest and safest car I can, to carry the family in, and then getting the MOT and any repairs done by a main dealer, etc. I could choose another (probably cheaper way) but in my mind I am happier knowing that I have got the best kit that I can afford.

I am not saying anyone else should do it this way, but it works for me. If I cannot afford the kit that the experts tell me I need, then I shouldn’t own a boat. In my case I brought a 50 year old wooden, in need of TLC. Cheap boat but lots of repair / maintenance expense. I see no reason why the boat would ever let me down, but having the safety kit aboard means that I am just that little bit less vulnerable.

I really am not NOT saying that the state should legislate (personal hate for red tape and if anyone says “its bacuase of Health and Safety or Data Protection they will feel my boathook). I agree that each to their own. This is just my way (I feel a song coming on...)

 

[Simondjuk]

Unusual to use a watch system for x channel. My longest time was 18 hours and that was into a f6-7 in a 30'er. Had I not had experienced crew onboard I would have aborted. I knew what the wind, forecast ad waves were going to be before crossing. I don't think I've been significantly caught out with a 12hr wind forecast. Whether you'd consider x channel "local" will be down to the skipper and crew ability

The example I gave was to the Channel Islands. To Guernsey from Chichester call it about 24 hours. From Eastbourne, in the region of 30. If you have the crew to run watches on a passage of that duration it makes sense to do so. Most people would probably like to catch some shut-eye, and running watches ensures everyone gets the chance to do so and knows when that chance will be. Without watches, the first guys to hit the sack don't have a reason to set an alarm for any specific time so may sleep on, leaving a cold and tired crew on deck for who knows how long.

Anyway, the point I was making was that lots of people do sail to the CIs from the south coast. Consequently, lots of people will be running watches through the night and potentially when it's quite blustery, not just a small minority.

 

[Simondjuk]

I do not agree. I have often gone down to Guernsey on my own, and use it as a stop off for Jersey or St Malo. A 16 to 18 hour passage in fair weather isn't any real strain on my body.

I did say 'might' and was using loose example, so it wasn't really a definitive point to be agreed or disagreed with. A day and a night could be a full 24 hours. Sure, you could stand that watch alone, if you really wanted or had to, but it's not particularly high on my list of fun things to do. Also, a trip from the south coast to the Channel Islands could be more like 30 hours than the 18 you mention, the south coast being quite long and all. Given the crew, running watches on a passage in excess of 30 hours would be a fairly sensible idea.

 

[fireball]

And the point still is that if you don't have what us consider to be suitable safety kit then Don't set off in those conditions. It's not rocket science.