Mcmurdo battery

[PabloPicasso]

I have a McMurdo fastfind PLB with an out of date battery.

Seems really expensive to get a new battery fitted, so much it seems more sensible just to but a new one.

Is there a PLB with a battery that the user can change easily/cheaply

Seems stupid in this day and age to be sending a plb to be recycled when all it needs is the battery

 

[Daydream believer]

The point is that the manufacturer can check that the transmission is correctly set up. If unskilled types start playing with it, there could be an issue. When my EPIRB goes back it is not just a case of battery change. It also gets tested & a new test cert issued

 

[PabloPicasso]

What is the cost of all that testing? Presumably they test before selling new ones?

Why is aftermarket testing/batt replacement sooo expensive. Does anyone bother. Surely cheaper to bin the old one and buy another?

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Mine came back with a certificate stating the checks made and new battery. Personally, I am satisfied with a service that reuses my PLB, rather than junking or recycling; similar experience with my EPIRB.

 

[V1701]

I've replaced them in my 210 based on a couple of videos - the part one is here. The hardest thing was finding batteries that had an appropriate presoldered connection. I'm not recommending that anybody else does the same...

 

[dunedin]

Have you tested the battery via the self test (think count the light flashes). Likely to be perfectly fine for at least another 3+ years.

I kept my original for 2 extra years then bought a new one but kept the old one as backup. Still seems fine battery wise over 5 years past official (ultra cautious) date

 

[PabloPicasso]

Yes. Mine is older and failed the battery test

Perhaps a replacement.

I see now there are plbs coming that transmit on. AIS AS WELL.

HOW MUCH WIL THEY BE??

 

[William_H]

It may well be worth getting a new PLB or EPIRB especially if the old one does not have GPS location. However if you are considering going to go to a new one it might be worth trying to open up the old one. Often they use CR123 cells which are a lithium non rechargable cell with a shelf life of 10 years. You may be able to replace the cells freely available however they are often connected together with nickel strips spot welded onto battery end. Doable but tricky check youtube. ol'will

 

[jamie N]

Soldering of these batteries can require 'skilled' soldering. However, there are 'conductive glues' available which would be suitable for some who are less experienced at soldering.
Batteries hate heat.

 

[rogerthebodger]

I have a Mcurdo EPIRB with an expired battery. I went to out local agent for a replacement and was told McMurdo no longer upply replacement battries for my EPIRB.

I found a local supplier of SAFT lithium batteries and they replaced the batteries for about a quarter of the price the agent charges 5 years ago.

The agent did a test and supplied a test certificate to me

Out local safety authority will not accept a replacement except by the original manufacturer who will not supply.

My Australia EPIRB battery has also expired but the local agent are not importing replacements due to the high transports for flying lithium batteries. Again a local supplier have replaced the battery but again the local safety authority will not accept a replacement except by the manufacturer.

This is against any monoploidy legislation in both the UK and where I live.

The interesting point id that last time I was in the UK I took my EPIRB to SARTEC in Redhill Kent who replaced the battery, reprogrammed and tested it suppling a test certificate. This was accepted in 2009 when I returned form the UK

There is a major problem with ALL EPIRB's and PLB's is that there is not return message from the satellite to confirm the signal has been received by the satellite. So when we press the test button we still do not know the signal ha been received and that some one is on the way to rescue you

There are now better more reliable ways of calling for help

 

[Farmer Piles]

Interesting post, but on your last point, many of the modern EPIRBs and PLBs on the market do have a display that shows when your signal has been received by the rescue authorities. Reassuring if they have, scary if you know that they have not.

 

[jamie N]

This is an interesting subject.
I've an ACR 375, which is OK for me. I've just done a self test on the device, and it's happy with itself.
To replace the battery is a matter of unscrewing 2 screws, separating the case, unplugging the battery, plugging in a new one and resealing in the reverse of the opening procedure.
5 minutes? Maybe less.
Online quotes for battery replacement are about £130+p&p., which does include the very well documented self test, that I've just done in under a minute.
I've not found the battery in the UK yet, there's a straight swap with one from the USA for under £40, but as my boat's coming out of the water soon, if I'd needed a replacement I'd have been able to remove the 'old' one, inspect it and get the model number from it and source it from that.
£130+p&p??

 

[rogerthebodger]

Interesting post, but on your last point, many of the modern EPIRBs and PLBs on the market do have a display that shows when your signal has been received by the rescue authorities. Reassuring if they have, scary if you know that they have not.

Do you have any link to the EPIRB;s that give a response to either a set off or tested EPIRB and how is the response provided.

 

[B27]

This is an interesting subject.
I've an ACR 375, which is OK for me. I've just done a self test on the device, and it's happy with itself.
To replace the battery is a matter of unscrewing 2 screws, separating the case, unplugging the battery, plugging in a new one and resealing in the reverse of the opening procedure.
5 minutes? Maybe less.
Online quotes for battery replacement are about £130+p&p., which does include the very well documented self test, that I've just done in under a minute.
I've not found the battery in the UK yet, there's a straight swap with one from the USA for under £40, but as my boat's coming out of the water soon, if I'd needed a replacement I'd have been able to remove the 'old' one, inspect it and get the model number from it and source it from that.
£130+p&p??

I have a mate who used to work for McMurdo or whatever they call themselves this week.

Firstly the batteries they buy are quite expensive.
Although you can get physically similar batteries, getting one with the QA and warranty behind it for a 6 year life in a safety product does tend to cost a little more.

Secondly the tests on an EPIRB during a refit are much more rigourous than a 'self test'.
It would be interesting to know how many devices get sent for a new battery and get scrapped for failing test.

On the production line in the factory, one person can test dozens of them using computerised test and record keeping.
A re-furb operator has a few of this model, a few of that model, manual record keeping etc, so it's quite labour intensive.
The test equipment is also expensive to buy and keep calibrated.

There is a lot to be said for buying a new one every 5 years and knowing you're not cutting corners.

 

[jamie N]

I disagree.
The self test will be every bit as rigorous as the itemised test in the factory. It won't itemise a fault, it will simply fail the item as there's a fault. The £130 battery replacement wasn't a factory job, just 'yottie' places.
I believe that ACR no longer service the PLB-375.
The ACR battery is cited for replacement after 5 years.
The life from this USA supplier is also 5 years.

 

[rogerthebodger]

I have a mate who used to work for McMurdo or whatever they call themselves this week.

Firstly the batteries they buy are quite expensive.
Although you can get physically similar batteries, getting one with the QA and warranty behind it for a 6 year life in a safety product does tend to cost a little more.

Secondly the tests on an EPIRB during a refit are much more rigourous than a 'self test'.
It would be interesting to know how many devices get sent for a new battery and get scrapped for failing test.

On the production line in the factory, one person can test dozens of them using computerised test and record keeping.
A re-furb operator has a few of this model, a few of that model, manual record keeping etc, so it's quite labour intensive.
The test equipment is also expensive to buy and keep calibrated.

There is a lot to be said for buying a new one every 5 years and knowing you're not cutting corners.

Of cause the manufacturer would like you to buy a new EPIRB every 5 years . I would prefer to ensure my boat and my skills are up to scratch so I bont need an EPIRB.

I have asked to some technical specs of the batteries supplied by the manufactures so I can ensure the specs of the manufacturers are the same as the ones I had fitted.

There is also info about the current consumption of the EPIRB in operation , under test nd out of cradle.

The Amp hours capacity of the batteries as supplied. This would give me alto more confidence of the operation or the EPIRB.

The 5 years replacement are based on the shelf life of the batteries . My supplier have experience of the batteries fitted of having a 10 shelf life.

There is not battery manufacturer name of reference number so this is hidden information

Of cause shelf life very depends on the storage conditions which the Manufacturer has no control over

Due th o the lack of information from McMurdo I would not buy another EPIRB from them as there are now EPIRB's with a 10 year batery replacement life cycle which raised the question of the real shelf life of McMurdo's batteries.

 

[B27]

I disagree.
The self test will be every bit as rigorous as the itemised test in the factory.

I suspect the 'self test' of an EPIRB merely checks RF power quite crudely and measures the battery volts.
Whereas production line test will do things like check the GPS acquires position, check the RF signal is transmitting the correct data at the correct frequency etc.

Personally, I have seen enough electronic stuff stop working after 5 to 10 years that, if I'm going to depend on something, I think it might be better to budget 40 or 50 quid a year to have a properly in-date EPIRB or PLB.
Even if you change the battery yourself, how many extra years would you trust it for? Are you going to trust a 15 year old bit of kit that's been amateur maintained?
There's plenty of people with duff 15 year old marine electronics.

So how much are you really saving?

Of course there comes a point where you're only sailing up and down the coast, you don't really need a PLB or EPIRB, so it's better to have a slightly less trustworthy one than none at all, but then maybe you might be looking at other systems like AIS or DSC based distress kit.

 

[B27]

Of cause the manufacturer would like you to buy a new EPIRB every 5 years . I would prefer to ensure my boat and my skills are up to scratch so I bont need an EPIRB.

I have asked to some technical specs of the batteries supplied by the manufactures so I can ensure the specs of the manufacturers are the same as the ones I had fitted.

There is also info about the current consumption of the EPIRB in operation , under test nd out of cradle.

The Amp hours capacity of the batteries as supplied. This would give me alto more confidence of the operation or the EPIRB.

The 5 years replacement are based on the shelf life of the batteries . My supplier have experience of the batteries fitted of having a 10 shelf life.

There is not battery manufacturer name of reference number so this is hidden information

Of cause shelf life very depends on the storage conditions which the Manufacturer has no control over

Due th o the lack of information from McMurdo I would not buy another EPIRB from them as there are now EPIRB's with a 10 year batery replacement life cycle which raised the question of the real shelf life of McMurdo's batteries.

When you buy a consumer, or even industrial battery and it's got a 10 year warranty, you need to read very carefully what it's warranted to do for those 10 years.
Statistics come into it, a reputable battery supplier will expect a certain failure rate, budget for a few warranty returns.
Typically if you buy an industrial bettery with a 10 year warranty, if it fails after 9 years, the manufacturer will just give you 10% discount on a new one.

With safety kit, it's a different game.
You want a very high level of being sure you won't get any failures under worst-case conditions.
So it's prudent to only warrant things for a shorter time.
You wouldn't want to be tech director signing off an EPIRB where just one didn't do the job in its warranty period.

Note that some of these things with a 10 year battery only have a 5 year product warranty!!!

These things come from a worls of aviation and safety, where things are routinely binned before they are worn out.
It's also a world of product liability insurance.
Legislation by the mile.
It's probably only since lots of cheapskate amateurs started wanting this stuff that anyone cared whether the replacement date is 5, 7 or 10 years.
Most commercial operators are not that bothered. The cost of the gear is not huge to them, in relation to the paperwork and cost of inspections etc.
It's different in e..g Aus, where many more boats are required to carry EPIRBs, so there's a big, price sensitive market.

EPIRBs are spec'd to keep transmiitting for quite a while when activated (2 days?) , in reality most yachtsmen are going to be dead if not rescued within a few hours, so a battery will probably be 'good enough' for a while after its warranty period. If 'probably' is good enough for you...

Battery technology keeps improving too, so older products were probably certified with less data on the battery performance.

 

[jamie N]

Even if you change the battery yourself, how many extra years would you trust it for? Are you going to trust a 15 year old bit of kit that's been amateur maintained?

I'm not an amateur, I'm a 45 years experience submersibles electronic engineer, and feel relatively confident changing a battery and replacing an 'O' ring..

 

[rogerthebodger]

Battery technology keeps improving too, so older products were probably certified with less data on the battery performance.

You talk about warranty any length of warranty will not hep when my boat is sinking under me in the middle of any ocean.

You say the test only checks the battery voltage and the RF output

The cel voltage of the cell I used is very level until the cell is almost discharged do measuring the cell voltage give little indication of the cell capacity

Check for your self

https://potensa.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Potensa-SAFT-LO26SHX.pdf

This is the spec if the cell I used in my McMerdo EPIRB what is the spec of the cells supplied by McMerdo

I would much prefer to get conformation of the signal being received by at least the satellite not just the signal power to the antenna

For your information I was a Chartered Engineer before I retired and designed lots of Computer based electric equipment for industrial use so I think I have some idea if the longevity of electric equipment and still use electronics I designed and built 20 30 years ago

Probably have more experience than the tech who would change my battery especially its my life that could be a stake,

I personally check my life jackets and my life raft.

I maintain my boat myself to ensure its dom correctly for the same reason.

DONT ASSUME ALL PEOPLE DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE DOING