MCA Murder and Abortion Kit

[Dominic]

May I chip in ?

There is a terrible assumption in your arguement.

You assume that the skipper of the boat will be as cold, calm and rational at sea as you are ,sat at your desk typing in your comments.

Once you throw in pressure, stress, weather and fear you may have a different set of actions to the ones youe envisage yourselves following.

Now throw in inter-crew-tension, hate, jealousy.

Now add the reality of the extra tensions of the moment that an outsider has no grasp of.

So there you are, in mid Solent physically (but out in space mentally) when the crisis comes.

Describe the results of that mix, typing from your desk.

Until I saw your thread I had never considered the extra confusion of these factors - an ideal situation that leads to accidental death, death through incompetence, manslaughter or murder.

BrendanS said...

"You'd only be using cat c drugs in offshore situations in my mind."

What YOU would do in HIS mind.

An assumption about human behaviour.

And so I circle back to my original post.

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[peterb]

Check again.

The RYA First Aid Course ticket has three signature spaces. One is for the course, the second is for an update after 3 years, and the third is for Cat C drugs. I suspect that your instructor has signed in the wrong place. My certificate only has the first signature.

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[BrendanS]

Re: May I chip in ?

If I was in mid Solent, I'd not even be thinking of using drugs of any sort without a Pan Pan Medico call. If there was no response, and the situation was life threatening, I'd think about it, though carefully.

It's at precisely these moments that you are a skipper for a reason, and should be trying to make clear logical decisions..and it's bloody tough sometimes.

I've been in a situation where we put in a Pan Pan Medico, and as you say, there are a lot of conflicting instincts and desires, and there are parts of the situation where with hindsight, I'd have done parts of it differently, but that's hindsight for you, and at the end of the day, the PPM call was put in and the coastguard took over to good effect.



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[BrendanS]

John,
we've debated and discussed before... I was making a general point not aimed at you particularly.

I think, as with Dominic, we are pretty much in agreement. The issue is far more whether people should be carrying these drugs, without in depth training on when and where to use them, and whether boats that are used coastally really need them at all.

Part of the problem is that in countries like UK and NZ, we do have ready availability of rescue services and radio contact to coastguards and other services (on the whole) while in many parts of the world, coastal cruising can mean you are still totally on your own. The international regulations don't make this distinction, and many local regulations follow international regulations.

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[Peppermint]

Re: Hmm

The only drugs we were instructed on were, seasickness tabs, painkillers, whatever type of angina treatment you might find on a crew member and treating diabetics or victims of anaphylactic shock (which I can't spell). Where do these fit into the equation then?

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[andy_wilson]

PAN PAN MEDICO

This is the key.

The on call doctor will know exactly what is carried in a complete MCA first aid kit.

Hopefully.

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[Cornishman]

Re: PAN PAN MEDICO - OOD

Sorry to have to inform you that Pan Pan Medico is no longer available as an urgency call. It is replaced with Pan Pan, and then if you are VERY lucky you MIGHT get to speak to a doctor. There is no longer a doctor on standby. This is because the one you used to speak to was a military doctor at one of the military hospitals, which no longer exist.

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[zephyrsailor]

could be wrong but i believe there is no longer pan pan medico. in a medical emergency you would just do a pan pan. if the coastguard deems it nessarcery he/she will upgrade you to a mayday vessel. you would still reaceive medical advice from a doctor over vhf tho.

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[PhilipStapleton]

"signed off for Class C drugs" ... not any more. When I did my 3-year "refresher" RYA first aid course this year, the drugs instruction, and the ensdorsement had been dropped. In fact, each time I do the course, there is less in it. Modern first aid seems to be to get the victim breathing, comfortable and not loosing blood too fast, and call for help.

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[BrendanS]

Re: PAN PAN MEDICO - OOD

Fair point, I hadn't actually realised it had been withdrawn as an official call (quick search on google shows many sites not updated, including training school agendas, and information impossible as ever to find on mcga.gov.uk site as their search facility is down, and it's impossible to find anything on that site anyway

Though the radio.gov.uk sites shows this <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.radio.gov.uk/publication/ra_info/ra292.htm>http://www.radio.gov.uk/publication/ra_info/ra292.htm</A> so it seems not even official sites are aware.

Coastguard still respond to it though, and immediately start asking pertinent questions.

Still, now I know to use a normal Pan Pan call.

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[MainlySteam]

Re: PAN PAN MEDICO - OOD

Yes. I believe the convention is exactly the same as for any other distress or urgency call ie "Mayday" if the person is in grave danger and immediate medical assistance is required, "Pan Pan" when urgency is required but "Mayday" not warranted.

Interested in your comment about the decreasing support for medical advice over the radio. I wonder if that is one of the penalties of increasing numbers of boat owners making frivolous calls or just because they have not created an alternative to the lost military option?

I believe that we here can still seek medical assistance at a lower level than a Pan Pan would warrant (say, if one just had concern about a possibly developing medical situation), although I think they would quickly tell you stop wasting their time if you were within a short distance of port or asked about simple headache remedies!

John

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[andy_wilson]

Re: PAN PAN MEDICO - OOD

When I checked this last year the Coastguard confirmed this but assured me that placing a PAN PAN Medico whoul immediately alert them to the type of urgency.

They can also contact doctors if deemed a requirement.

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