Maximum chain for stowage

[Ubergeekian]

I'm about to replace the anchor chain which snapped in a gale in the Kyles of Bute. At the moment I have 30m on order at Largs, but I could easily increase it to 45m. However, I saw a reference recently which suggested that 30m was about as much as you could carry without it tending to fall over and sieze up in the locker.

It's a standard triangular locker up at the pointy end of the boat, and it'll be 8mm chain. My Jouster (no reasonable offer refused) carries 25 fathoms of smaller 1/4" chain and that does tend to fall over on itself, though it's so light that it can generally be yanked up OK.

What does the panel think? Is 45m of 8mm chain asking for trouble?

I'm not bothered by the weight up front, by the way - I'm a heavy lump, the boat is pointy at the back and a bit more weight up front'll keep her a bit more level when I'm at the helm.

 

[Steve_N]

I can't see a problem really. We have 70m of 10mm in the usual triangular locker and it runs out and back in OK. We do have access to the chain locker from the forecabin though, and if there's 40m+ out then I do tend to pop down halfway through hauling it in, to spread out the big pyramid of chain and make space for the rest.

 

[Coaster]

We have 50m of 8mm chain which just fits into our chain locker, fed by an electric windlass. I'd like more but the chain piles up into a cone and fitting an additional amount requires pushing the pile over. I know that various methods have been suggested to help spread the chain in the locker but I'm sceptical.

So check the available space first, before buying?

 

[Sinc]

Quick supplementary - if it's allowed here. And apologies for my ignorance but
what exactly do you mean by chain 'falling over'?
I can understand the 'piling up in a cone' and then jamming. But what's the problem with a long length of chain if there is room in the locker for it?

 

[Poignard]

On my 28-foot boat I have 65metres of 8mm chain in a trapezoid shaped locker in the angle between the forward bunks. It always runs out freely and stows itself ok without intervention (provided I remember to remove the plywood lid of the chain locker ).

If you are really that interested I have the chain locker dimensions in an old notebook somewhere.

To some people it may seem a lot of chain to carry but if you anchor in parts of Brittany where there is a tidal range of up to 13 metres and strong tidal streams it doesn't seem too much. Even more in the Bay of Funday I believe, although I have no plans to visit there in the near future.

 

[agurney]

Quick supplementary - if it's allowed here. And apologies for my ignorance but
what exactly do you mean by chain 'falling over'?
I can understand the 'piling up in a cone' and then jamming. But what's the problem with a long length of chain if there is room in the locker for it?

The chain piles up in a cone. At some point the newly added chain starts going down the outside of the cone. The problem comes a little later when the boat 'shoogles' and the cone falls over .. on top of the chain at the bottom of the pile.


Alisdair

 

[Poignard]

The chain piles up in a cone. At some point the newly added chain starts going down the outside of the cone. The problem comes a little later when the boat 'shoogles' and the cone falls over .. on top of the chain at the bottom of the pile.


Alisdair

That's right -more likely to happen in a wide chain locker. Mine is narrow so there isn't room in mine for it to fall over to any extent..

 

[boguing]

I can understand the 'piling up in a cone' and then jamming. But what's the problem with a long length of chain if there is room in the locker for it?

It's a twofold problem.

Chain coming in can be thought of as 'new'. If you have a pyramid and the new lays down next to it, and then the pyramid topples, the 'new' is trapped, and ever increasingly trapped as more new comes in. Can cause glitches when dropping next time.

Second problem is that as the pyramid's apex approaches the height of where the new is coming in, there is less and less weight of chain (fall) helping itself into the locker. Result is having to put a foot into the locker to keep toppling it.

It is alleged that a 'road cone' standing in the locker trains the chain run around and around it. No topples. Makes sense but never tried it. Don't sell them in chandlers?

 

[Tidewaiter2]

It's a twofold problem.

Chain coming in can be thought of as 'new'. If you have a pyramid and the new lays down next to it, and then the pyramid topples, the 'new' is trapped, and ever increasingly trapped as more new comes in. Can cause glitches when dropping next time.

Second problem is that as the pyramid's apex approaches the height of where the new is coming in, there is less and less weight of chain (fall) helping itself into the locker. Result is having to put a foot into the locker to keep toppling it.

It is alleged that a 'road cone' standing in the locker trains the chain run around and around it. No topples. Makes sense but never tried it. Don't sell them in chandlers?

No demand down here in the South, get left behind by jobsworth contractors ripping off the WSCC Highways Dept- job and PUFO, leaving all signage behind!
As Village Handyman(I Wos pressed!), we recycle them for village event use along with the abandoned cones etc.

Boaty bit- now got 55m 10mm calibrated and last few metres tends to cockle a bit going in- any tips, other than get it all out on pontoon and one up, one down, tidy it up going in?

 

[VO5]

I carry 225 feet of 5/16" chain on my boat. The chain locker is an inverted pyramid shape. I have experienced the chain getting somewhat tangled inside the locker after passages in bad weather involving lots of movement, but I have easily sorted that out using a long screwdriver to lever out the tangle without bother. Otherwise the chain runs out quite easily normally. From time to time I open the locker and give the chain inside a good squirting with aerosol lubricant, WD 40, etc., to keep it smooth.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Thanks, all.

It sounds as if 45m shouldn't be a problem, particularly since I would expect to use the last 15m quite rarely - I can put that in first, make sure it's forming a level bed, then put the rest on top.

Good advice from Coaster about checking the available space. I don't think it will be a problem - the previous 15m (East Coast boats) was lost in there - but I'm going to the boat today to check a few things and will measure up then.

Many thanks again.

 

[CaptainBob]

Your old chain "snapped in a gale"!! What happened exactly? Everyone OK? Was it obviously degraded, or did it come as a total surprise?

 

[Onyva]

If you have the room for it take the 45m as you can never have too much in my opinion. We have 90m and it's never jammed in 30000M.

 

[Quandary]

With regard to volume, 30m. of 10mm chain will just fill a standard polythene kitchen basin, going just over the top but not high enough to fall out. This is what I keep mine in because I use the front end of the anchor locker for lighter stuff like the anchor shank, the reel of warp, a spare gas bottle in a bucket and a couple of big fenders. However without a windlass I am placing it by hand. So 50m. should be well below 2 cubic feet (sorry about the mixture of units, but I can't visualize it in litres)

 

[Dockhead]

There is no one answer to this as every boat is different.

We have 100 metres of 12mm chain and are very glad of it. The more chain you have, the more options you have concerning where you can anchor. We had 40 metres of chain before upgrading our ground tackle this year, and in anchorages with a big tidal range it could be simply impossible to anchor with a decent scope.

Our anchor locker is quite deep and the 100 metres of chain goes in and out without any hitch at all. So far it does not cone up, but perhaps that is helped by being new and still slippery. We'll see.

Your results will vary, because your anchor locker will be different. Not just its shape and dimensions, but the geometry of how the chain comes off the windlass into the locker.

Another limiting factor is trim -- how much weight can you carry right up in the bows without affecting your boat's trim?

 

[john_morris_uk]

We have 52 metres of 10 mm chain and it usually stows by itself. Occasionally I have had to go and give the pile a push when we are retrieving lots of it but this is very rare. However although this might be interesting, it might also be totally irrelevant as it all depends on the shape and size of your particular chain locker. The cone trick is worth trying if you have trouble and it doesn't have to be an old traffic cone. I have seen them made out of wood - perhaps two bits that slot together like an anchor ball or motor sailing cone? The more chain the better so long as the weight isnt an issue? Hope this helps...

 

[vyv_cox]

One answer is to go for stainless steel chain. It stows far better than galvanised as it seems to have a far lower coefficient of friction. Strength from a reliable manufacturer is around the same as Grade 40 although its ductility is slightly less, not a problem especially if you use a snubber. The downside is cost, maybe 4 times as much.

I carry 60 metres of 8 mm. If I have had it all out I need to push the cone flat or sideways about twice when hauling it all in. It doesn't seem to be too arduous, especially as the last 25, the part used most often, will stow itself if the rest is pushed flat before I start hauling it in.

 

[BrianH]

I'm about to replace the anchor chain which snapped in a gale in the Kyles of Bute. At the moment I have 30m on order at Largs, but I could easily increase it to 45m. However, I saw a reference recently which suggested that 30m was about as much as you could carry without it tending to fall over and sieze up in the locker.
It's a standard triangular locker up at the pointy end of the boat, and it'll be 8mm chain. My Jouster (no reasonable offer refused) carries 25 fathoms of smaller 1/4" chain and that does tend to fall over on itself, though it's so light that it can generally be yanked up OK.
What does the panel think? Is 45m of 8mm chain asking for trouble?
I'm not bothered by the weight up front, by the way - I'm a heavy lump, the boat is pointy at the back and a bit more weight up front'll keep her a bit more level when I'm at the helm.

I have 60m of 8mm chain and it stows well enough providing I control how it is stowing. It all depends not just on size of anchor locker but the position of the chain lead and vertical drop point in the locker.

Mine is too close to the aft bulkhead, which slopes back from the base and the chain tends to pyramid against it until it jams at the entry. As the winch switch is adjacent to the winch I'm in the bow with the locker open and can topple the pile before it gets too high. If the chain dropped further forward I am sure there would never be a problem.

As another poster commented, the original post begs the obvious question as to why the chain snapped .... Therein lies an interesting story, methinks.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Your old chain "snapped in a gale"!! What happened exactly? Everyone OK? Was it obviously degraded, or did it come as a total surprise?

As another poster commented, the original post begs the obvious question as to why the chain snapped .... Therein lies an interesting story, methinks.

Not terribly interesting, I'm afraid. Went for a wee trip to the north end of Bute. Anchored for the night - 20lb CQR plus all 15m which came with the boat out in about 3m or water. Last foot or so of chain before the anchor - the bit that lived outside - was a bit rusty, the rest looked and looks (what's left of it) fine.

By morning it was blowing nicely - 20kt gusting to about 35kt. About 6am a muffled bang was followed by the gentle thump as we drifted into the shore. Luckily Mr Yanmar did his thing and we motored slowly to Colintraive, picked up a mooring and sat out a real blow (for the sheltered waters of the Clyde) - up to 45 kts for extended periods.

We weren't violently snubbing when the chain broke and although 15m is not much (she lived on the East Coast for years) there was around 5x depth out when it went. The old chain is, I think, 7mm so I am going up to 8mm.

I had a look at the chain locker today. It's a wee bit difficult to tell how much room there is, since the old chain is sitting on a fair bit of braided rope, but from what Quandary says (thanks) I think there will be enough room for 45m. I shall ring the estimable Jane at Largs Chandlery tomorrow and ask her, if she has ordered a 50m bag of the stuff, to keep it all for me. Otherwise 30m will do ... for now.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Thank you for the account of how your previous chain broke. I think people were asking because it's almost unheard of for an anchor chain to break! Glad that it all worked out ok without too much trauma or damage done.