Master switchs

[Bow42]

I have two master switches one for the engine and one for the house .
Both go to a set of relays .
Whenthey are turned off I can clearly hear the relay going off .
The problem .
When I turn off the engine master it works .
but when I turn off the house switch it seen it doesn't turn every thing off .
All the light in the cabin stay on and the led lights on the dash panel stay on although the volts meter on the panel does drop to zero .
I wondering if the lights would had been wired in a different place although they have a switch on the panel of for the cabin and one for the saloon .
I would had though that once the master switch was turned off it should turn off every thing on the panel including the LED lights .
Thanks

 

[Tammany]

Looks like some of your wiring has been bypassed. The house master switch should control the positive feed to the fuse panel and everything except bilge pump control should be wired from this. It sounds like you've got an extra feed been added bypassing the master switch. That's the trouble with buying older boats, you don't know whats been fiddled with by various hands over the years. I stripped mine out completely and rewired mine.

 

[LadyInBed]

As Tammany says.
Whoever wired it got it wrong as far as received wisdom goes, but he may have had his reasons.

 

[alahol2]

Perhaps the engine master switch is turning on a paralleling relay so that both batteries get charged when the engine is running?
Cabin lighting sounds as though it is bypassing the house master.

 

[Bow42]

Perhaps the engine master switch is turning on a paralleling relay so that both batteries get charged when the engine is running?
Cabin lighting sounds as though it is bypassing the house master.

I can see that by why are all the LED lights on the panel all stay on once the master and relays are switch is turn off ,

 

[alahol2]

I can see that by why are all the LED lights on the panel all stay on once the master and relays are switch is turn off ,

I could maybe understand if you switch on both masters (the engine master would parallel the batteries). If you then turn off the house master (but leave the engine master on) you still have the batteries paralleled so are 'powered on'?
Are you saying that you can't switch off the LEDs on the panel? Are the permanently on?

 

[Bow42]

I could maybe understand if you switch on both masters (the engine master would parallel the batteries). If you then turn off the house master (but leave the engine master on) you still have the batteries paralleled so are 'powered on'?
Are you saying that you can't switch off the LEDs on the panel? Are the permanently on?

Yes , which both master switches of the LED alights on the panel will still on , as well as the cabin and saloon light which by the way are on two different switches

 

[PaulRainbow]

You simply need to trace where the LED's and cabin lights are connected to. It's almost certain they are wired directly to the batteries. You can move them so they go off when the isolator is turned off.

 

[Robin]

OP could always ask the previous owner....:nonchalance:

 

[Bow42]

OP could always ask the previous owner....:nonchalance:

He might have is phone turn off .

 

[William_H]

It does seem to me to have attractions that when leaving the boat at night you have some lights still functioning to allow you to exit with light. Assuming that you can turn them off from outside. Modern boats do need some circuits to remain alive when master is off. Solar charging bilge pump clock radio memory being some. So not surprising to me that some exit lights might also be kept alive.
However it might also be that last owner added lED lights and just connected them to battery because he as bewildered by the original ships wiring.
Incidentally a relay for master power switching is common on small aircraft but not common on boats as you might tend to leave turned on for long periods such that the relay coil current becomes a significant drain. ie often 1/4 amp. So may not be as he thinks.
OP just needs to keep investigating. olewill

 

[Bow42]

It does seem to me to have attractions that when leaving the boat at night you have some lights still functioning to allow you to exit with light. Assuming that you can turn them off from outside. Modern boats do need some circuits to remain alive when master is off. Solar charging bilge pump clock radio memory being some. So not surprising to me that some exit lights might also be kept alive.
However it might also be that last owner added lED lights and just connected them to battery because he as bewildered by the original ships wiring.
Incidentally a relay for master power switching is common on small aircraft but not common on boats as you might tend to leave turned on for long periods such that the relay coil current becomes a significant drain. ie often 1/4 amp. So may not be as he thinks.
OP just needs to keep investigating. olewill

Hi William
I may had mislead you , the LED are the once on the dash panel , ie each switch has its own LED .
the panel is wired to buss as normal ,
I would had though that if the relays stop the power from going to the panel it stop everything from working including the lights .
i cant see any added wires going to the light switches on the panel so it don't look like the switches have been wired up to the battery .
its puzzled me .
the boat been in one ownership from new and he would had been the type of guy who would had paid good money to get thing done right , so i doubt its been botch up . also looking at the back of the panel it doesn't look as if it been touched from new

 

[PaulRainbow]

i cant see any added wires going to the light switches on the panel so it don't look like the switches have been wired up to the battery .

Of course they are wired to the batteries. If everything else goes off when you turn the isolator off, the isolator is working. Therefore, if the light still work they are wired differently, directly to the batteries.

This can be a wire going straight to the battery positive terminal, or it could be coming from the isolator switch. So, look at the batteries, what wires are connected to the positive terminal ? It may be, in fact it's more likely, that the lights are wired to the isolator switch. The isolator switch must have a wire straight to the battery, this would be a good place to take power for anything that needs to be on independent to the isolator.

 

[Bow42]

Of course they are wired to the batteries. If everything else goes off when you turn the isolator off, the isolator is working. Therefore, if the light still work they are wired differently, directly to the batteries.

This can be a wire going straight to the battery positive terminal, or it could be coming from the isolator switch. So, look at the batteries, what wires are connected to the positive terminal ? It may be, in fact it's more likely, that the lights are wired to the isolator switch. The isolator switch must have a wire straight to the battery, this would be a good place to take power for anything that needs to be on independent to the isolator.

Hi Paul
I understand what your saying , but why are all the LED light on. The panel ?
It tell me that power is going to the switch panel some how .
So on theory the panel life , would you not agree .

 

[Robin]

Had something similar after a new inverter /charger was installed. Lights even showed with the battery negative master switch off, but with the boat still connected to shorepower AC so I guess the feed was reaching the panel via the new inverter/charger. 'Expert' supplier/installer returned and corrected the 'error'.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Hi Paul
I understand what your saying , but why are all the LED light on. The panel ?
It tell me that power is going to the switch panel some how .
So on theory the panel life , would you not agree .

What are the LED's for, switch illumination or do they only come on when a switch is in the "on" position ?

 

[Bow42]

What are the LED's for, switch illumination or do they only come on when a switch is in the "on" position ?

Switch illumination .
If I disconnect the battery's they go off , so they have to be getting their power for the panel .

 

[VicS]

Switch illumination .
If I disconnect the battery's they go off , so they have to be getting their power for the panel .

So they are not indicators that illuminate when the circuit is switched on ..... they are normally on all the time there is power to the panel, and they should be like that?

The trouble now is that they stay on even when the master switch is off. ?? is that right ?

What about the accessories the switches control ......... presumably they dont all work as well when the master is off ... or do they ???

 

[nemodreams]

Switch lights are usually three terminals - the extra one being a NEG. ie the switches are all just switching a + wire - but any lights on them need a circuit to work - so need a neg feed as well.
Do the switch lights work properly - ie off when switch is off - on when on ?

A quick check on the panel with a multimeter at the back of the switch connections is going to point you to the 'still live' wire - when the breaker is OFF ?

 

[VicS]

Switch lights are usually three terminals - the extra one being a NEG. ie the switches are all just switching a + wire - but any lights on them need a circuit to work - so need a neg feed as well.
Do the switch lights work properly - ie off when switch is off - on when on ?

A quick check on the panel with a multimeter at the back of the switch connections is going to point you to the 'still live' wire - when the breaker is OFF ?

I suspect these lights are not indicator lights that are dependent on the switch position ( ie on or off) but are illumination lights ( that is what the OP calls them ) that are independent of the switch positions .

If so it seems likely that the illumination leds all have a common negative and a common positive supply independent of the wiring etc for the actual switch function.

I would be looking to see where this supply comes from ... it appears to come from a permanently ON supply rather than via the master switch/isolator