Marina Fees ???? Fair or not ?

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How many times do we hear / find Marina fees quoted / required at less over the channel ...? We then return to Uk and pay marina fees for 'chatty loos, £1 coin showers .....' etc. Do you think you are getting a good deal ? Now I would be very interested to know about your 'deal' and how you feel about it ........ Berth-holders Associations my a--e, have they actually helped you ?
I await postings with baited breath !
 

johnt

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just for interest .I shall be paying £850 for a marina berth at Hartlepool .....and its STILL too much !
 
G

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just for interest .I shall be paying £850 for a marina berth at Hartlepool .....and its STILL too much !

You don't mention the size of your boat so we can judge the fairness of the charge.
I don't defend the value for money of British Marina charges, but I would like to ask you what you expect for your annual fee. Knowing Hartlepool a little I would have thought you are certainly getting value for money at that price whatever the size of your boat. If you think it is too much, what do you think is a realistic fee?

Regards
Howard
 
G

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For a drying pontoon berth, hard standing for winter, no electric, but including water .... I am coughing up about £1000 for the year, 25ft boat.
Electric is either metered via a 'leased' in-line meter, or by own lead to 'coin-box' operating on buddy system and £1 coins.
Compared to other south coast marinas its not bad, has no lock to worry about and is close to the river / harbour entrance giving only about 20 mins run to actual Solent.

BUt I still consider it high, considering the tidal aspect ..... about 2 hrs either side of HW ...... 2.5 hrs if yer lucky !

So what about yours ??????
 

bedouin

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Totally Fair...

On the whole this country has a market economy. Marinas operate within this economy and so are free to charge whatever the market will stand.

Since most marinas in the Solent area have waiting lists, it is obvious that the market will stand the prices they are charging and so they are right to charge them.

Access to the water in the UK is a strictly limited resource, the expansion of sailing means that these resources are being stretched and there needs to be some restraining factor. In a market economy that is usually price.

There are two big benefits that the high prices bring. Firstly they pay for improved facilities, these are much better than they were a few years ago. Secondly in increase in revenue for Marina operators means that it is now cost effective to develop more marinas, or expand existing marinas. This would not have been the case a few years ago.

Therefore the boating public as a whole benefit greatly from the higher charges, and the entire sport benefits.
 

paul

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Re: Totally Fair...

Would that be the same "market economy" that benefits everyone who enjoys higher prices on cars, houses, fuel and just about anything else you can think of? There are many industries which have a potential stranglehold over consumers, e.g telecomms, gas, water etc where the goverment recognises that left to their own devices companies would fleece the consumer; that's why we have regulators. That said part of the problem is due to the goverment's Crown Estates cash machine working in overdrive. By the way, you didn't mention which marina operator you work for?
 
G

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Re: Totally Fair...

Some truth in that. But the market economy is a fiction that only works in limited circumstances and even then is usually regulated to distort it.

And I question very much whether having more marinas is a good thing. There are far too many already.

If we're applying pure market economy theory, market economics doesn't exclude the ability of berthholders to campaign/gang together to put pressure on the marinas to bring prices down.
 

bedouin

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Re: Totally Fair...

That's the one!

The utilities are a special case - because they are not in a genuinely competitive environment.

However - if you wish to reject the free market (with all the problems it entails) you must first devise a superior solution.

Problem: There are a lot of boats and a limited number of marina places.

For the record I do not work for a Marina company, and I keep my boat on a swinging mooring because I am not prepared to pay Marina rates!
 
G

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Get yourself a free mooring like a few of us in Morecambe Bay Nigel if we want a shower and toilet facilities we stroll over the road to our club house and also have a quick pint while we are there.

how can you moan when it costs thee nowt!

Anyhow when are you and your baltic lass going to try the delights of Morecambe Bay?
Regards
Your Mate
Bluebeard
 

johnt

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its a 28ft trapper 500 .and if Cherbourg can do it for £750 including water and power ........why cant we!!!!

Carentan is under £400 for the same thing!
 

johnt

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Re: Totally Fair...

it sounds to me that you would be in favour of restricting the availability of petrol and then charging £10.00 a gallon for it ...that would get the cars off the road and reduce accidents wouldnt it???
 

tomg

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But is the marina at Cherbourg owned by a commercial company which must pay full rates and taxes and service its capital expenditure and make a profit for its shareholders (buy shares in the MDL parent if its doing so well) or is Cherbourg owned by the municipality and subsidised by its ratepayers likes so many 'community' enterprises in France? If the latter then you have your answer and should take full advantage of the benevolence of French ratepayers. If the former then buy shares or borrow money, build and jump on the 'lucrative' bandwagon but don't spend all the profit because when the next downturn comes along, and it will, you might need some to pay the bank interest. Property, labour and services in the crowded, prosperous southern part of England are all very much more expensive than in the rural, sparsly inhabited part of Northern and North-Western France. For a truer comparison we should surely compare costs and availabilty between our South Coast and theirs. Whats the cost of a marina berth in the crowded, prosperous south of France - and I'll allow a small premeium for them for their weather?
 

bedouin

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Re: Totally Fair...

No - because taxes are set by the Government which is NOT a free market.

Many people moan about the cost of marina berths - mostly people who actually pay the high prices. THEY are the one causing the problem - if the marinas couldn't fill the berths at the rates they charge then they would soon drop the rates.

If you don't like the free market principle then suggest a better idea.

If, like me, you (grudingly) accept that the free market is, on the whole a good thing, then either pay the prices or go elsewhere. If you are prepared to manage without the mod-cons of showers, walk-on access etc you can still moor your boat for £550 in the Solent area - and they don't have a waiting list.
 

johnt

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Re: Totally Fair...

oh yes, so you can ...Hanging out in the middle of Langstone harbour, waiting for the first thief to come along !!

Come off it Bedouin, £550 for a swinging mooring is as much extortion as close on £2000 is for a marina berth.

and it ISNT a free market ....its SELLERS market and we are being held to ransome!

Its rip off Britain remember?
 

johnt

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Let me tell you about the Marina at Sunderland if you dont like Cherbourg as an example. that was built with EC capital as where the french ones ...its a charity ..and a ltd company ....and it fees are far too HIGH !!!! £1300 PA for my boat ..WHY SO MUCH ??

the fiasco at Poole is a case in point , the french build marinas to attract tourists and provide work for the area, effective wouldnt you say? ........and at £20 per night Poole wont be seeing much of me , or a lot of other people, in future.....they have achieved the opposite effect!

Incidentally UK seems to be the ONLY country in europe that ALLOWS private enterprise to screw us over this way, every body else seems to treat harbours and such as a national asset and publically owned , after all WE paid for the damn things originally didnt we?
 

johnt

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oh by the way Tom G .your argument is utter rubbish ..publicy owned companies have to service debts, pay taxes etc as well you know LOL.

and dont start on about state handouts ......just think about Railtrack ...and thats a private company!
 
G

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Hi
Ive been reading your comments, I run a website www.mooringstolet.com, its a free site for boatowners looking for a mooring. if anyone is interested in forming a UK moorings/marinas users association please sign the guestbook on the site and I will see what response there is. I have posted message "bertholders asociation" in this forum
Regards Malc
 

bedouin

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Re: Totally Fair...

There you are! You are making a value judgement - you don't regard swinging moorings in Langstone as secure, and so you are prepared to pay for security!

Like it or not, this is a free market. You are not forced to own a boat, and there are alternatives to the Marinas should you wish to used them. But you are right that it is a sellers market, and that tends to push up prices.

All the heat this topic generates obscures the main issue. There is a problem with limited resources, particularly in the Solent area. The growth in Marina prices (esp. Poole, Newtown Creek...) is one symptom of this - but expect more!

I ask again - what is your solution?
 
G

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Re: Totally Fair...

You're right, I would be 200% in favour of that!!!

How did you guess?
 

Bergman

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I don't think "Fair" enters into the arguement.

Beduin is absolutely right. A fair price is what people are prepared to pay.

If you tried to sell your boat for say £10k and someone offered you 11 you would take it, anybody would.

If noone offered you better than 9 you would have to take that.

Its called supply and demand.

Thats why you boat in Hartlepool cost £850 whereas it would cost around £1850 on the Solent.

Its all very well to compare with the French who blatently ignore the European rules on subsidising commercial companies with this country where we have to folow the rules.

Unless you can find a way around this then you will have to continue to pay the market rate for your sailing - Sorry.

As an afterthought I once considered a marina as a business venture. When you costed in labour ( 24 hour security is very expensive) Maintenance of the fabric (Try an estimate for new lock gates) Business Rates. etc against a potential income of say £1500 per boat it does not leave much of a margin. In fact my sums usually came out negative.

As a further by the way Hartlepool Marina was heavily subsidised by TDC if I remember rightly.
 
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