Mangusta 70 - 80ft (1996 - 2004) Advice

[SageMaster]

Hi all and greetings from Australia,

I just like to start by saying a big hello to one and all. Looks like a cool place to hang out and get some quality info!

Love some insight and feedback on purchasing second-hand Mangusta 70 - 80ft (1996 - 2004). My budget is 500k - 600k USD. How do they compare to other vessels of similar size and vintage. What are things to look out for.

Appreciate your experienced

 

[jfm]

These things are almost given away in Europe. Use half that budget to buy it and half to fix it. Nice machines if they suit your boating, but because they were fully custom there are many with terrible interior décor/veneer/marble so you have to look hard to find a good one. Big expensive machinery but nice. I had a nice couple of visits to the Overmarine factory in 2002 - the era you're looking at - and they have high build quality

 

[SageMaster]

These things are almost given away in Europe. Use half that budget to buy it and half to fix it. Nice machines if they suit your boating, but because they were fully custom there are many with terrible interior décor/veneer/marble so you have to look hard to find a good one. Big expensive machinery but nice. I had a nice couple of visits to the Overmarine factory in 2002 - the era you're looking at - and they have high build quality

Hi JFM thanks for input. Hows their sea keeping capability compared to AB, Baia, Leopard. Have you had been on one.

 

[jfm]

Yes I've been on plenty of Mangustas up to 108. Seakeeping just isn't a thing here - these are maybe 50 tonnes plus at 70/80 feet and not incredibly fast, so unless you go out in stupidly big seas then they just crunch through at that size/weight with barely a ripple in the surface of your beer. Seakeeping is more relevant if you're in a 40 or 50, maybe 60, footer, which are half the weight.

Comfort at anchor is a big deal in these because you'll love spending plenty of time on them and they inevitably have a relatively quick roll period due to sleek design, and many/most/all in your target zone will be unstabilised.

I've been on Leopard Sport 23 (a lot) and 24 (a bit) and again at this size their seakeeping is pretty perfect. LS23 has small engines (2x1200 man, or 2x 1300) so is a slow boat despite its supersonic looks. Almost none of these are stabilised and retrofit gyro in LS23 is close to impossible because the e/room is tight. Retrofit fins would be possible.

I haven't been to sea in a big Baia or AB. I see plenty around and they look excellent

 

[Parabolica]

Beautiful boats but having looked, the buy-in price is attractive for a reason, because they will be fiercely expensive to maintain. Similar family i looked very closely at an Arno Leopard 23M and the custom nature ensures that anything and everything, that you are you are required to do to maintain your boat, will cost as much as it’s possible to cost. I quickly came to the conclusion that it would be a foolish vanity project with my head stuck in a romantic place due to its beauty but needing to realise fast, that the boat is now 20yrs+ old and i would be taking on “the baton of certain pain”.

i bought a 10yr old Sunseeker instead !

 

[SageMaster]

Hi JFM thanks for input. Hows their sea keeping capability compared to AB, Baia, Leopard. Have you had been on one.

Yes I've been on plenty of Mangustas up to 108. Seakeeping just isn't a thing here - these are maybe 50 tonnes plus at 70/80 feet and not incredibly fast, so unless you go out in stupidly big seas then they just crunch through at that size/weight with barely a ripple in the surface of your beer. Seakeeping is more relevant if you're in a 40 or 50, maybe 60, footer, which are half the weight.

Comfort at anchor is a big deal in these because you'll love spending plenty of time on them and they inevitably have a relatively quick roll period due to sleek design, and many/most/all in your target zone will be unstabilised.

I've been on Leopard Sport 23 (a lot) and 24 (a bit) and again at this size their seakeeping is pretty perfect. LS23 has small engines (2x1200 man, or 2x 1300) so is a slow boat despite its supersonic looks. Almost none of these are stabilised and retrofit gyro in LS23 is close to impossible because the e/room is tight. Retrofit fins would be possible.

I haven't been to sea in a big Baia or AB. I see plenty around and they look excellent

Thanks again as this is great advice JFM. To clarify my intended goal is to purchase in Europe and ship to Australia then actually live on a vessel so your comments re 'comfort at anchor' is very interesting. Being a musician I wish to set up a small studio below in the main lounge for recording music and small bands/musicians. I will not be doing much cruising maybe 100 nm per month in my local cruising grounds waters of the east Coast of Australia. Hence why I'm looking at Mangusta 80 has a bigger lounge area below the deck than some other models, also some Mang 80 models have an office desk set up in the lounge which is perfect for a music studio mixing console etc. In regards to boating, I intend to entertain a lot top side in the open deck area and do an occasional day cruise to close reefs/islands as the weather is great year-round. The Mangusta ticks seakeeping and good speed boxes. How would a Mangusta 80 or similar be for liveaboard purposes? What power water considerations would have to be made eg stabilizer, solar panels or generator upgrade etc? Any thoughts on good brokers, surveyed and shipping companies etc.
Thanks again for your feedback in advance.

 

[jfm]

It will cost around us$150k-200k to ship a mangusta 80 from Europe to Aus, I’d expect.
Just my opinion but Mangusta 80 would make a terrible live aboard. It’s a day boat. The saloon is claustrophobic because it’s below decks.

As I say, very few of the fleet are stabilised. Retrofit will be messy and $250k.

Solar will make little difference because you won’t find any space to mount enough of them. Mangusta is deliberately designed as a permanent generator or shore power boat.

If you want to live on board you need a big stabilised flybridge boat

I would strongly urge you not to buy a mangusta 80. You would be getting a long way out of your depth.

 

[SageMaster]

It will cost around us$150k-200k to ship a mangusta 80 from Europe to Aus, I’d expect.
Just my opinion but Mangusta 80 would make a terrible live aboard. It’s a day boat. The saloon is claustrophobic because it’s below decks.

As I say, very few of the fleet are stabilised. Retrofit will be messy and $250k.

Solar will make little difference because you won’t find any space to mount enough of them. Mangusta is deliberately designed as a permanent generator or shore power boat.

If you want to live on board you need a big stabilised flybridge boat

I would strongly urge you not to buy a mangusta 80. You would be getting a long way out of your depth.

Thanks for heads back up. What flybridge under 500k would you suggest. Also what’s boat is your profile pic is that your vessel.

 

[Portofino]

If I remember rightly one of them or both , the Mangusta or Leopards gave huge engine room fans running .In hot climates at anchor theses often run constantly . Others I was gonna say nearby , but not no so near can hear the racket as the sound travels out of the lateral air vents across what was a peaceful anchorage until they ruined it .
They eventually turn off .They run them before up anchoring too .So if you are a musician these boats kinda rub the wrong way .

Take a look at San Lorenzo s .
IMHO the pick of the crop(s)
From 58 , ideal would be a 62 interms of running / maintenance balance .They do bigger in increments of 10 ft upwards 72 , 82 etc etc .There early one’s late 80s and 90 s are as good value as the Mangusta/ leaoprds etc .It’s funding the mechanical stuff as the engine bills are still there .Fuel bills can be half , but so is the speed obviously.

 

[colhel]

. Also what’s boat is your profile pic is that your vessel.

That's a San Lorenzo 95, the 9 toilet version.

 

[MapisM]

Just my opinion but Mangusta 80 would make a terrible live aboard. It’s a day boat.
...
If you want to live on board you need a big stabilised flybridge boat

Amen to all that.
For living aboard, I'd take any half decent 60' flybridge rather than an 80' Mangusta any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.
In fact, there are excellent reasons why it takes more money to buy a SL 62 of comparable age/conditions...
BTW, this still stands also for just about all the other open boats the OP is considering in his other thread.

 

[jfm]

Thanks for heads back up. What flybridge under 500k would you suggest. Also what’s boat is your profile pic is that your vessel.

Hard to answer these questions because they are how long is a piece of string. Given your location and the cost of shipping from Europe (=~ half your budget), you would perhaps be better looking in Asia for a big (like 80 feet) Horizon - there are several local to you. Big Rivieras are nice, but I'm not sure they built one big enough. There are some Squadron 78s near you and one in Perth, but maybe only 1 or 2 are stabilised. Likewise Princess 78 or 82, but they would be above your budget - maybe look for a Princess 23m

I don't wish to rain on your parade but there is a reason big old boats are cheap: the demand for them is tiny due to the ongoing running costs. Typically anyone who can afford the running costs (ie, not care about a surprise bill for $50k or $100k, etc) can also afford a newer/better boat. So these big old boats plummet to the price of a new 30 footer. The Mangustas you see advertised at $500k can be had for half that - the owners (or repo bank) just want to get rid of them and you would be the only buyer in town.

If you haven't been there, it's hard to explain just how is expensive and difficult the maintenance could be. You need deep enough pockets that you don't care about a surprise bill for $50k or $100k, and every cent you spend will add nothing to the boat's capital value.

The profile pic is a Sanlorenzo SL96A - I have one in build for Q1 2024 delivery. Would make a great liveaboard but is slightly above the price target you want to hit. As mentioned above older Sanlorenzos especially 72 and 82 are nice classic flybridge boats. Not sure you would find one locally. It's an ultra premium quality product that can cost much more than the others new and secondhand, so you would need a pretty old one to meet your price target, so is probably a non starter. It's Italian and there are other premium Italian brands that would also make good liveaboards (Canados, Falcon, Admiral, etc) but they would all have the mangusta problems of high maintenance, probably no stabilisation, massive shipping cost unless you buy locally, etc

 

[SageMaster]

That's a San Lorenzo 95, the 9 toilet version.

Beautiful boat. I will look at some of their earlier models as suggested by some mebers.

 

[SageMaster]

Hard to answer these questions because they are how long is a piece of string. Given your location and the cost of shipping from Europe (=~ half your budget), you would perhaps be better looking in Asia for a big (like 80 feet) Horizon - there are several local to you. Big Rivieras are nice, but I'm not sure they built one big enough. There are some Squadron 78s near you and one in Perth, but maybe only 1 or 2 are stabilised. Likewise Princess 78 or 82, but they would be above your budget - maybe look for a Princess 23m

I don't wish to rain on your parade but there is a reason big old boats are cheap: the demand for them is tiny due to the ongoing running costs. Typically anyone who can afford the running costs (ie, not care about a surprise bill for $50k or $100k, etc) can also afford a newer/better boat. So these big old boats plummet to the price of a new 30 footer. The Mangustas you see advertised at $500k can be had for half that - the owners (or repo bank) just want to get rid of them and you would be the only buyer in town.

If you haven't been there, it's hard to explain just how is expensive and difficult the maintenance could be. You need deep enough pockets that you don't care about a surprise bill for $50k or $100k, and every cent you spend will add nothing to the boat's capital value.

The profile pic is a Sanlorenzo SL96A - I have one in build for Q1 2024 delivery. Would make a great liveaboard but is slightly above the price target you want to hit. As mentioned above older Sanlorenzos especially 72 and 82 are nice classic flybridge boats. Not sure you would find one locally. It's an ultra premium quality product that can cost much more than the others new and secondhand, so you would need a pretty old one to meet your price target, so is probably a non starter. It's Italian and there are other premium Italian brands that would also make good liveaboards (Canados, Falcon, Admiral, etc) but they would all have the mangusta problems of high maintenance, probably no stabilisation, massive shipping cost unless you buy locally, etc

Really appreciate the insight. Lookin forward to looking at these other models.

 

[SageMaster]

If I remember rightly one of them or both , the Mangusta or Leopards gave huge engine room fans running .In hot climates at anchor theses often run constantly . Others I was gonna say nearby , but not no so near can hear the racket as the sound travels out of the lateral air vents across what was a peaceful anchorage until they ruined it .
They eventually turn off .They run them before up anchoring too .So if you are a musician these boats kinda rub the wrong way .

Take a look at San Lorenzo s .
IMHO the pick of the crop(s)
From 58 , ideal would be a 62 interms of running / maintenance balance .They do bigger in increments of 10 ft upwards 72 , 82 etc etc .There early one’s late 80s and 90 s are as good value as the Mangusta/ leaoprds etc .It’s funding the mechanical stuff as the engine bills are still there .Fuel bills can be half , but so is the speed obviously.

Thanks again Port really enjoying the insight from yourself and others with experience. Just started looking at the Sanlorenzos nice boat indeed.

 

[stelican]

That's a San Lorenzo 95, the 9 toilet version.

That's handy always within 10ft of a toilet.

 

[stelican]

Beautiful boat. I will look at some of their earlier models as suggested by some mebers.

What about a large catamaran

 

[SageMaster]

What about a large catamaran

Sailing of motor cats. What are your suggestions

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Both the Mangusta 72 and 80 where hot sellers in there time. I think Mangusta sold about 80 80s from 1992 onwards including the first version with forward looking radar arch to the most recent HT version introduced in 2006. The 72 also sold around 50....
I think they are good Summer liveaboards, not so good for Winter.
The 72 is your best resale item in the Med in its size and type. They sell easily unless over priced or are in bad maintenance. More easy if you are in the North West part of the Med.
There is like 25 72s for sale at the moment (some of these might be double listings) but anyways in Summer you always see them decrease to about ten units.

The Leopard 23 is the cheaper to keep, since they are on shaft drives. Yes not super fast they do 30/32 knots with the Man 1200hp.
Bot Mangusta 72 and 80 are all surface drives, while the Leopard 24 was on Jet Drives.
I think in the Leopard you have a place where to put a gyro since in the garage there should be space. I also think that another space can be found under the saloon.
I know a bit more for the Leopard 23 since I have been managing one for the last two years or so.

Unlike the AB Yachts and Baia, the Mangusta and Leopards where focused more on luxury and comfort. So performance was at max forty knots.
Think of Mangusta and Leopard as your luxury boat which can go fast. While AB Yachts, Baia, Pershing took performance at heart and where a fast boat with luxury amenities.

As JFM said these boats where custom build to order, with some exception of speculation builds usually made for the fall boat show season.
So depends what you want inside some of them might have interior that might not be to ones taste. This is always very subjective....
I think for exterior and el plein air living the Mangusta 80 and or 72 are still unbeatable in there sizes, and with the recent 72 it is fairly easy to put a patio door if you want to enclose it.

 

[SageMaster]

Both the Mangusta 72 and 80 where hot sellers in there time. I think Mangusta sold about 80 80s from 1992 onwards including the first version with forward looking radar arch to the most recent HT version introduced in 2006. The 72 also sold around 50....
I think they are good Summer liveaboards, not so good for Winter.
The 72 is your best resale item in the Med in its size and type. They sell easily unless over priced or are in bad maintenance. More easy if you are in the North West part of the Med.
There is like 25 72s for sale at the moment (some of these might be double listings) but anyways in Summer you always see them decrease to about ten units.

The Leopard 23 is the cheaper to keep, since they are on shaft drives. Yes not super fast they do 30/32 knots with the Man 1200hp.
Bot Mangusta 72 and 80 are all surface drives, while the Leopard 24 was on Jet Drives.
I think in the Leopard you have a place where to put a gyro since in the garage there should be space. I also think that another space can be found under the saloon.
I know a bit more for the Leopard 23 since I have been managing one for the last two years or so.

Unlike the AB Yachts and Baia, the Mangusta and Leopards where focused more on luxury and comfort. So performance was at max forty knots.
Think of Mangusta and Leopard as your luxury boat which can go fast. While AB Yachts, Baia, Pershing took performance at heart and where a fast boat with luxury amenities.

As JFM said these boats where custom build to order, with some exception of speculation builds usually made for the fall boat show season.
So depends what you want inside some of them might have interior that might not be to ones taste. This is always very subjective....
I think for exterior and el plein air living the Mangusta 80 and or 72 are still unbeatable in there sizes, and with the recent 72 it is fairly easy to put a patio door if you want to enclose it.

Great feedback appreciates your insight on the Leopard 72 as you manage one. For liveaboard purposes could you set up solar panel array on hardtop and movable ones on the deck to reduce use of generator obviously need set of lithium battery bank?