Man overboard recovery under sail

[saltwater_gypsy]

There is a good article in the current YM about picking up the victim under sail. As there is also a sad article about a fatality when the pick-up was attempted under engine so under sail has some advantages.
A method that I was shown in a Sigma38 is not considered however. The helm was put hard over to put the boat through the wind so that the foresail backed. The tiller was kept hard over. Nothing was touched and the boat obediently sailed in a circle around the victim with the mainsail gybing each time it passed through the wind.Clearly this could only be used in moderate conditions but it was a very effective demonstration.
It may not work with all yachts however.
and.....Yes I have this correct! If you were heaving to you would put the helm to leeward but that is not what this is about.
Has anybody else used this method or are there other methods that you would recommend for recovery under sail?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Some Techniques To Position Yacht

From close hauled or reaching tack and hove to. Can put you very close within throwing line distance.

I do teach gybing in man overboard. MOB, bear away gybe, put man in triangle between boom, kicker and mast with boom all the way out. If main sail doesn't flap, big bear away and re target MOB in triangle, repeat until main sail flaps. Approach with MOB on leeward adjusting main as required. In windy weather with a furling head sail rolled away, you can cleat off on windward sheet and easy off a bit of furling line, and hove to the boat right on top of the MOB.

However, I always teach the reach tack reach method as the default maneuver for positioning the yacht under sail for moorings, anchor spot and MOB until the students understand how to control a boat under sail including stopping.

Thereafter other boat positioning methods can be introduced with the understanding that for a boat to stop under sail the sails need to flap, unless hove too!

Another interesting method I have come across but not practised was hove too with engine on. The MOB is down wind or up wind it doesn't matter but you have space; you use forward and reverse to ferry glide the hove to yacht into position. I may not have described in accurately here but it was very effective.

 

[Twister_Ken]

See UK Halsey MOB vids here.

You have to register to see them, but UK Halsey is not an overactive e-marketeer, so it's pain-free.

 

[BelleSerene]

The thought of having repeated uncontrolled gybes going on, at a time when the crew's attention is distracted (by the MOB) and likely moving across the cockpit to help the victim, fills me with dread. I have no doubt that it's a clever tactic in the right (mild) conditions, on the right boat (high boom!); but otherwise it surely risks turning one emergency into two?

 

[snowleopard]

The method I was taught in my exam preparation was to crash-tack as you describe, then steer close to the casualty. You won't be able to stop the boat but you can reassure the casualty and pass - not throw - him a lifebelt and dan buoy. You then tack the headsail and reach-tack reach to pick him up.

I did a couple of sessions on Wild Bird helping Carol practice this. It was a bit of a shock! She tried and missed, then I took over, confident that I would show her how it should be done. I screwed up too, several times. I brought a YM instructor friend along to have a go and he couldn't do it either. The problem was that as we approached slowly, spilling the main, as soon as we dropped below 1 knot, the keel stalled and we just went sideways. The only time I've had that happen was when pulling up the plate in a dinghy.

In the end we concluded that the best technique was to do the crash tack a little way off, then keep the headsail aback and go into the hove-to position when she would lie quietly, head-reaching at 1/4 knot.

The problem was that the esaminer had seen theis technique and declared it invalid saying 'now do it properly', i.e. reach-tack-reach.

 

[Woodlouse]

If your quick enough then you can get the boat hove to whilst still within line throwing range of the MOB. If not then it can be easier to go slightly broad of a reach away, and then have a slight close haul back so you're not going quite so fast and you have more control when spilling the wind from the main. Useful if the mains fully battened as sometimes you can't depower them on a reach.

 

[alant]

There is a good article in the current YM about picking up the victim under sail. As there is also a sad article about a fatality when the pick-up was attempted under engine so under sail has some advantages.
A method that I was shown in a Sigma38 is not considered however. The helm was put hard over to put the boat through the wind so that the foresail backed. The tiller was kept hard over. Nothing was touched and the boat obediently sailed in a circle around the victim with the mainsail gybing each time it passed through the wind.Clearly this could only be used in moderate conditions but it was a very effective demonstration.
It may not work with all yachts however.
and.....Yes I have this correct! If you were heaving to you would put the helm to leeward but that is not what this is about.
Has anybody else used this method or are there other methods that you would recommend for recovery under sail?

what was the name of the Sigma 38 you learned that method?

I used to teach on a Sigma 38 - Kindred Spirit.

 

[Poignard]

I have never lost up a man [or woman] overboard but when recovering lost hats I use the reach - tack - reach method. Seems to work ok most of the time. My success rate is probably about 75% but some hats make no effort to save themselves so they probably deserve to die

 

[BlueSkyNick]

From close hauled or reaching tack and hove to. Can put you very close within throwing line distance.

I do teach gybing in man overboard. MOB, bear away gybe, put man in triangle between boom, kicker and mast with boom all the way out. If main sail doesn't flap, big bear away and re target MOB in triangle, repeat until main sail flaps. Approach with MOB on leeward adjusting main as required. In windy weather with a furling head sail rolled away, you can cleat off on windward sheet and easy off a bit of furling line, and hove to the boat right on top of the MOB.

However, I always teach the reach tack reach method as the default maneuver for positioning the yacht under sail for moorings, anchor spot and MOB until the students understand how to control a boat under sail including stopping.

Thereafter other boat positioning methods can be introduced with the understanding that for a boat to stop under sail the sails need to flap, unless hove too!

Another interesting method I have come across but not practised was hove too with engine on. The MOB is down wind or up wind it doesn't matter but you have space; you use forward and reverse to ferry glide the hove to yacht into position. I may not have described in accurately here but it was very effective.

Teaching to gybe to return to a MOB is now a no-no in the RYA syllabus. Favoured option is to get down wind on a broad reach, tack and return on a close reach spilling and filling as necessary.

The last suggestion was also taught on the Instructor's course I attended recently.

 

[KREW2]

Teaching to gybe to return to a MOB is now a no-no in the RYA syllabus. Favoured option is to get down wind on a broad reach, tack and return on a close reach spilling and filling as necessary.

The last suggestion was also taught on the Instructor's course I attended recently.

Thats the way I was taught in the 70's, I believe it was called a figure of eight recovery.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Teaching to gybe to return to a MOB is now a no-no in the RYA syllabus. Favoured option is to get down wind on a broad reach, tack and return on a close reach spilling and filling as necessary.

The last suggestion was also taught on the Instructor's course I attended recently.

MoodyNick I accept your point. This subject is debated at every instructors update course I have been on. I teach people how to handle yachts under sail using a stepped approach building up skill, confidence and understanding. The starting point in the teaching model I use is always reach tack reach, stopping and starting the boat under sail. Thereafter I introduce other ways to place the yacht at a desired position.

Nothing surprises me at the RYA with regards to teaching methods as they have always made recommendations on preferred options in the 25 years I have been associated with teaching sailing. On my last Instructors Update one Instructor couldn't even pick up a mooring off Cowes under sail!

I would always recommend to candidates for Coastal Skipper and Yachtmaster to tack the boat round and approach on a fine reach anyway as this has always been a fairly consistent supported method of approach by the RYA and as near as it gets to an "RYA Method" of MOB.

However, handling a yacht under sail and being able to place the yacht and control speed is always my objective and never blind adherence to a dictated style. The sea is not that rigid.

 

[saltwater_gypsy]

In the end we concluded that the best technique was to do the crash tack a little way off, then keep the headsail aback and go into the hove-to position when she would lie quietly, head-reaching at 1/4 knot.

That's pretty well what is described in YM so that you drift down to the casualty.
The method which I describe does not involve "uncontolled gybes" as someone put it ,since you can sheet in the main for controlled gybing and achieve the same effect.
The method lends itself to the use of the "Lifesling" type of recovery floating rope and sling as circling the casualty is a basic part of this method.
Interesting comments however.

 

[Kelpie]

I was recently taught to do MOB for my day skipper, as follows:
- broad reach away from MOB, start engine
- tack, leaving jib backed
- broad reach towards a point downwind of MOB, furling jib on the way
- turn towards wind, aiming to come to a halt slightly on the upwind side of MOB; spill main as necessary.

 

[BobnLesley]

MOB Recovery

I favour the 'Australian Method' for effortless MOB recovery: -

1. Get all remaining crew into the cockpit, whilst heaving too.
2. All on board then point at a spot in the water somewhere beyond the casualty, assume looks of horror and repeatedly scream the word shark!
3. You can lower the boarding ladder too if you're feeling generous, but provided the crew put enough passion into their warning shouts, they should infuse the casualty with sufficient terror to clear the gaurdrails.

 

[explores]

Sounds good to me.

 

[snowleopard]

Another interesting method I have come across but not practised was hove too with engine on. The MOB is down wind or up wind it doesn't matter but you have space; you use forward and reverse to ferry glide the hove to yacht into position. I may not have described in accurately here but it was very effective.

That is the method recommended for my rig - but under sail. Bring the boat to a halt, beam on to the wind, a short distance to windward of the casualty. As my rig is unstayed it will lie at 90° to the boat with no drive. To move forward pull the boom aft, to sail backwards push it forward

I have never lost up a man [or woman] overboard but when recovering lost hats I use the reach - tack - reach method. Seems to work ok most of the time. My success rate is probably about 75% but some hats make no effort to save themselves so they probably deserve to die

An important point here - you can recover a hat with a boathook as you sail past at a good clip. To get a person out of the water you have to be going a lot slower. Discussing this with an instructor I was told that under 1 knot would get you through a Day Skipper exam but for a Yachtmaster you'd be expected to get down to under 1/2 knot.