Man overboard devices

[Kukri]

Basis?

I might argue that the CL is a very poor choice in many cases. Popular forum dogma, but not supported by any rule that I am aware of.

You know what I meant! OK, I should have written ‘’Officially...’’

No, I don’t, either. A centre line jackstay leads over the companion and fore hatches and tangles the tethers up in the ventilators.

 

[Kukri]

My wife bought a paired tether & very soon dumped it. having a free lump of metal swinging about is an absolute pain & anyone who has tried it has quickly changed it for a single line one. My safety lines go from the bow to cockpit any way, so there is little need to swop positions.
If I were that worried I would just hook on another single tether for a short while.

Hook the ‘spare’ hook onto the attachment point on the harness when not in use.. Thought everyone did this?

 

[Kukri]

I confess to having a Jonbuoy as well as two U shaped lifebuoys with lights and a danbuoy. The danbuoy is a rigid one so it can be used for practice.

I think it is important to have a halyard that easily reaches the waterline, with a snap shackle. Another good point about the Backtow life jackets is their lifting strop.

I agree with others that a 4:1 purchase with snap shackle hooked onto a halyard is much easier than taking the halyard to a winch. But it needs to be a dedicated purchase kept handy and not tangled.

 

[KellysEye]

The whole point is to to stop a MOB. The harness should have one long and one short tether which is used on deck so you can't go over the guard rails, the long one is to put around the mast when reefing, plus a U-bolt in the cockpit and jackstays. We always clipped on in bad weather and at night.

 

[duncan99210]

All this advice about not going overboard and how to minimise the chances of it is great but misses the point of the OPs original question which was about which MOB alerting device was best. I’ve no doubt that he will be using a lifeline, taking great care and all the rest but what he is looking for is advice as to the best thing to buy to deal with the actuality of going overboard.....

I’ve used the NASA Mobi kit and found that it does what it says on the tin: it provides and audible alert if one of the activated fobs goes out of range of the base station. Linked to a decent sounder, it wakes the dead and gets the crew on deck but that’s it. It doesn’t provide any position fixing on the casualty. We also found it a bit flakey, sometimes loosing the signal whilst the fob was still on board.

We’ve gone for AIS/DSC beacons on our lifejackets. That’ll provide an alarm on the AIS, a constantly updated position fix on the casualty and a second alarm via the DSC on the radio. So if the worst happens and one of us goes overboard, the off watch persons gets woken up and has a position fix to steer to.

In addition, we have PLBs to signal to the wider world the casualties position. Belt and braces.

 

[Kukri]

The whole point is to to stop a MOB. The harness should have one long and one short tether which is used on deck so you can't go over the guard rails, the long one is to put around the mast when reefing, plus a U-bolt in the cockpit and jackstays. We always clipped on in bad weather and at night.

Let’s look at staying on board.

Here are some ways in which someone can go OB:

1. Swept over by a green sea crossing the deck.

This is the commonest way in which seamen on large vessels go over the side. It’s less common on yachts although it can happen on big fast boats.

2. Trip over something on deck.

Probably happens mostly when not under way, because when under way we tend to have one hand for ourselves and one for the ship.

3. Fall between dinghy and yacht.

Probably the commonest of all.

4. Knocked over by a flogging sheet or sail, or by an unsecured spar

Tabarly.

5. The boat moves in a way that we fail to anticipate, for example a lee lurch.

I bet this is the commonest. We all get used to the motion of the boat and anticipate it, and when the boat reacts differently we find ourselves in the scuppers if we are lucky and not in the scuppers but thrown over the guard wires, or breaking the guard wire stanchions, if we are unlucky.

 

[rogerthebodger]

I have a MOB device designed by out very own Angus McDoon and like most if not all MOB devices use the lost signal method to detect if anyone had gone out of range i.e overboard.

This will not happen if you are hanging from a tether.

If you single all the MOB devices will be useless and there is no one to stop the sailboat. A powerboat is different as you should also have a engine stop tether.

What we need for single handing and MOB device is some way as say putting the helm fully over depending on the tack of the sailboat.

I designed my boat to have extra high stantsions with solid top rails to reduce the likelihood of anyone going over the side but still have jackstays and tethers for bad weather or on solo night watch.

A MOB device with and alarm button and helm control would be better together with a back attach harness would keep you attached to the boat and also allow you to put the helm hard over to try to stop the boat.

Comments please.

 

[Kukri]

I have a MOB device designed by out very own Angus McDoon and like most if not all MOB devices use the lost signal method to detect if anyone had gone out of range i.e overboard.

This will not happen if you are hanging from a tether.

If you single all the MOB devices will be useless and there is no one to stop the sailboat. A powerboat is different as you should also have a engine stop tether.

What we need for single handing and MOB device is some way as say putting the helm fully over depending on the tack of the sailboat.

I designed my boat to have extra high stantsions with solid top rails to reduce the likelihood of anyone going over the side but still have jackstays and tethers for bad weather or on solo night watch.

A MOB device with and alarm button and helm control would be better together with a back attach harness would keep you attached to the boat and also allow you to put the helm hard over to try to stop the boat.

Comments please.

This looks like the right track.

It should be easy to “tack” an autopilot from a remote.

A vane gear other than a Hydrovane, which you can declutch, will have a line going to the tiller or wheel drum from a block on the side deck, chop the line and she will round up. There must still be a few trim tab gears with a brownstick

And of course one can just lash the helm. Again, cut the line?

So, some sort of remotely activated line chopper?

 

[rogerthebodger]

This looks like the right track.

It should be easy to “tack” an autopilot from a remote.

A vane gear other than a Hydrovane, which you can declutch, will have a line going to the tiller or wheel drum from a block on the side deck, chop the line and she will round up. There must still be a few trim tab gears with a brownstick

And of course one can just lash the helm. Again, cut the line?

So, some sort of remotely activated line chopper?

At one time some blue water sailors promoted trailing a long line off the stern that would disconnect the self steering when grabbed by the MOB but this was still hit and miss. It also relied on the boat rounding up into wind due to weather helm.

I do have a monitor self steering but tend to use my autopilot these days as I have lots of solar to power th electronics.

 

[Kukri]

Right. Let’s assume that all single handers now have both. We can simply make a rule that the vane gear is declutched and the autopilot engaged when working on deck, and we always carry a remote on us.

All we need now is a way to get back on deck from alongside with the boat stopped.

As everyone who has ever swum from a boat at anchor knows, it’s an awful long way up!

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

I have witnessed my boat happily sailing away, nobody on board, with the Aries engaged!
It was fairly rough, and she was well balanced on a close reach, with just a touch of weather helm, so disengaging the Aries with a trailing line wouldn't have been a big help, apart from altering the exact point she crashed into Norway some hours later! She certainly would not have conveniently rounded up and sat in irons waiting for me, that's for sure..

Not arguing with the sensible points made above though. ( The story had a happy ending as she kindly got towed before hitting the rocks)

 

[Kukri]

Well, that settles that one.

Back to switching to the autopilot when on deck and carrying a remote.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Well, that settles that one.

Back to switching to the autopilot when on deck and carrying a remote.

Thats fine but you still need some way to stop the boat sailing away from you.

My theory would be to put the helm fully over so the boat sails around in a circle. It may crash gybe but so what.

When I sail with just my wife who is not a sailor I tell to put the help over fully the opposite way to the boom.

All you need is a device to determine which tack you are on and operate the tiller/wheel the correct way.

The operator depends on the arrangements on each boat.

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

Well, that settles that one.

Back to switching to the autopilot when on deck and carrying a remote.

It settles it for me because my boat is a heavy long keeler, and I try and get her sailing as balanced as possible before hooking on the Aries.. in fact more than once I have assumed the self-steering was working, when in fact a line had parted..

but other boats may be very suitable for a trailing line which unhooks the windvane.

 

[thinwater]

...Also, as already mentioned, should I fall overboard and remain attached to the boat by a harness there is very little to no chance that I would be able to re-enter the boat unaided if it remained underway, if however I fell overboard and the engine was stopped after 15 meters by a wireless kill cord, then it would be a simple job to swim to the boat and climb aboard.

a. If tethered short the evidence is a a great many sailors can get back aboard. Additionally, the recovery rate of untethered sailors is considerably lower.

b. Assuming this is a sailboat, killing the engine won't do much. If you kill the engine in a good breeze there is every reason to believe it will head down wind and drift faster than you can swim in anything more than a Speedo. Try swimming in a PFD. And most likely the boat will take at least 15 M to trigger, and will then coast farther.

c. Falling in while motoring is pretty damn unlikely if you are paying any attention and are sobber. You really did not need to be out of the cockpit.

In all seriousness, I don't believe the facts support your theories. I suggest testing some of them. For example, on a rough day with a 20 knot breeze, jump in with engine on (foul weather gear and PFD), have the crew kill the engine after 10 seconds, and see how it goes.

 

[Seajet]

I don't haveany electronic MOB aids yet- apart from the MOB button on the plotter if there's crew aboard and they're awake - but I have these measures, one of which I tried for real so I'll describe that first.

The mainsheet ( on a traveller across the cockpit halfway along ) lower block is on a large snapshackle - the topping lift is strong and led aft, and all guardrails on proper pelican hooks.

After a tiring cold night working on a sunken yacht I cocked up getting into the rigid tender on the mooring and capsized it.

Two things in my favour; I'd recently taken to always wearing a lj in the tender, and I'm used to dinghy racing so wasn't bothered being under an inverted boat - I imagine some people would find this offputting.

The KRU auto lj worked as advertised; I got my completely novice crew to unshackle the mainsheet and pass it to me so I clipped it to my lj harness eye - at least I was secure against the tide then - the pelican hooks were already undone.

It was all looking good until the boat heeled, mainsheet went choc - bloc and I couldn't get crew to tweak the topping lift.

I ended up detaching from the mainsheet and cling against the tide round to the step on the transom, it was quite a struggle to get back aboard even with crew pulling my arms.

I discovered I was 4th experienced owner to go over at the moorings, one had been swept by the tide to a vacant buoy where he was spotted, another went over in a wide part of the harbour in January and thought he'd had it but amazingly was spotted by a passing marina workboat.

We were all wearing lifejackets.

----

Other measures -

I have harness eyes close to the foot of the mast, each side.

These are as close to the centreline as poss and have the bonus on my 22' they allow a standard harness line to reach to the cockpit aft and pulpit forward, so no need for jackstays ( lots of harness eyes in the cockpit too ).

Sailing outside the Solent I keep a rolled up Mastep plastic ladder just inside the transom coaming with a dangling line to deploy it from the water - still wouldn't be easy but should improve my chances.

I trail a 100' long line with a keyfloat on the end, led up over the pushpit and tied to the autohelm ram - tried from a pontoon it works, should round her up at least.

None of these are perfect but seem worth a go, unless one fits total radio control to tiller, sheets, engine and carries a waterproof controller there will always be chinks in the armour.

 

[Kukri]

Going OB when getting into or out of a dinghy at a a mooring is, I’m sure, the commonest way to go OB from a yacht.

I like the Mastep plastic ladder rolled up on the transom idea.

 

[Daydream believer]

If I fell in it would be most likely something like getting the fenders & lines out/in when approaching/departing port. At that point I would not be going very fast.
Iif I went over there is nothing on the boat to grab onto from the water.
Similar if one fell in when alighting from a dinghy
So I have 2 lines permanently rigged along the side hanging just above waterline. Aft there is a cable tie which will break, allowing the line to swing out a bit at the stern

With these, hopefully, I can work my way to the stern & climb back up.by the Aeries
Without them to grab one would quickly drift a few feet away & then all would be lost. In addition it gives a MOB something to grab which gives them confidence & helps reduce panic
I have a 150mm line & hook on my LJ so I can hook that to the line, cut my tether & swing aft.

 

[Daydream believer]

Hook the ‘spare’ hook onto the attachment point on the harness when not in use.. Thought everyone did this?

The spare leg is 2/3 way down the line so hooking it back to the LJ immediately shortens the line which is then useless.
In spite of people saying short tethers are sensible I find them useless & one of my crew turned up with one 4 ft long. He soon found out that he could not even stand up with it, so it ended up being dumped & a 6 ft one being used. No point if you cannot move about once the thing is hooked on

 

[Greenheart]

I like the Mastep plastic ladder rolled up on the transom idea.

Me too, vastly better than reaching up for stanchion bases with no way to use the leg-muscles usefully.

But I don't know the Mastep name, nor can I find any associated image on Google.

Is it the same style as this Plastimo? If every yacht carried such a thing primarily for its own crew's benefit, the tragic stories of marina drownings might be consigned to history. Not that I'm suggesting we need any more laws.