Man overboard devices

[oldmanofthehills]

We have a 4:1 tackle which goes on the end of the kite hallyard.
It's an old mainsheet with jammer. Winding that in with the jib winch is not quick but it pulls the MOB back to the cockpit.

Agreed; it was suggested by trainer/victim that halliard or jib winch could be used to drive a 4 to 1 block. But its more to set up and more to get wrong. And I would really need to beef up my topping lift to take 100kg without risk of snapping and braining the casualty.

The Harken tackle sounds interesting but I fail to see how a ratchet increases extra lifting power. It surely increases holding power but thats not the issue

 

[pandos]

I often consider fitting a 12v recovery winch in the cockpit locker. This could be loaded with dyneema and used via a block on the backstay with a remote control allowing easy use

 

[Kukri]

I must be slow (it is getting late!).

My smallest winch is 16:1/. The highest geared is 40:1.

By the way, that tackle was rove to disadvantage (but easier to use I suppose).

Do you have a single part mainsheet going to a winch?

 

[Ohlin Karcher]

The latest On the Wind podcast has some educational expert blue water opinions on tethers etc, I just heard, paraphrased:
'we may have sailed 100,000 miles with zero experience of falling in, so in this context the miles don't count for much'
and,
'successful skippers often have no experience of using tethers, of being dragged or lifted by harnesses etc, because they have successfully avoided MOBing. So the best people to ask are climbers, their entire sport is dangling'

More good stuff about anchoring on there as well.

 

[Graham_Wright]

Do you have a single part mainsheet going to a winch?

No.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Seajet

Thanks for that. I'll certainly have two horseshoe lifebuoys with drogues and lights (and whistle?)

Advice I have been given (by a person who has cruised for 8 years) is that automatic inflating L/J give problems because they rely on something that dissolves in sea water so they must never get wet.

I'm thinking of a few of something like these L/J for myself and guests
http://www.harboursidechandlery.com.au/catalog/axis-offshore-150n-manual-harness-p-22067.html

I would appreciate advice

View attachment 79477

To say they must never get wet is simply wrong. I've worn soluble tablet designs on the foredeck of some very wet boats and got drenched in the cockpit on many, many occasions (sometime just through rain) too and never had one go off when it wasn't supposed to. It is definitely known to happen on the odd occasion but it's not something that I would put at the top of the list of reasons for choosing a lifejacket - you should be carrying rearming kits anyway. A Hammar is probably a better device but not to the extent of ruling out anything else. Actually I think the most important thing is how quickly it will turn you onto your back and how far out the water it will keep you but that's not something you get to check before you buy it. Otherwise, for me in order of importance:

Comfort - purely personal choice and your partner/crew may not find your LJ comfortable. You will be wearing it an awful though so it's most important thing for me (as long as it will function as a life-saving device where you want it to.
Ease of taking on and off (you need to do this surprisingly ofte as you add or remove layers of clothing.)
Ability to add other devices such as AIS/SART or PLB. Not sure I want these automatically deploying though.
Ease of serving (for me to do and also the availability of agents)
Cost (it costs £200 or so for an expensive one and lasts for years)

Must haves for it to be called a LifeJacket:

Spray hood that is very easy to deploy or, even better, automatically deploys.
Crotch strap or a design that doesn't need one (they all do on me in my experience)
Light that is automatically deployed.
Becket or attachment to lift me onto a boat or whatever.


I try and keep one of these on me if "properly offshore" https://www.abaris.co.uk/prod/knives-cutters/RRK-Race-Rescue-Knife-Hook-Nose.htm - there's other designs out there but it needs to be incredibly sharp and something where you can't stab yourself with the blunt end. You can cut some pretty hefty ropes, netting, etc. and, if you can't manage to deflate your LJ the way you're meant too, you have a good chance of cutting the bladders open without eviscerating your self at the same time. I attack the sheath to my foul weather jacket with a bit of nylon webbing. One end of the webbing is glued to the jacket and the other has velcro on the webbing and a matching piece on the jacket. Works OK as I rarely get to sail without needing to wear my jacket though I sometimes need a hand on the sheath to get the knife out. I did once get stopped by a very sensible policeman who suggested I should put the knife in my pocket at once and remember to take it off before leaving the boat in future .

 

[coopec]

Wow!

Thanks for that: I'm sure it is all excellent advice and I will follow it very carefully.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I have has 4 LJs go off unintended. 2 went off when we left them in dinghy which filled up with breaking waves, 1 went off when Navigator sat down in sea launching dinghy, one very old 1 went off in locker but I think I probably caught the manual set off cord. As a Bristol Channel sailor I am unfamiliar with the concept of good reliable weather and get drenched often. Never had a problem with auto LJs inflating unexpectedly in use. However after the mishap I keep spare cylinders on board, and spare triggers, and I change them at expiry dates.

I also carry a non-sharp nose knife on a lanyard at all times on boat or when going to or from boat. Never had an issue with police carrying knifes like that or indeed carring axes on the way to attend to trees etc. For a sailor or gardener carrying of such tools constitutes lawful use. Amusingly a friend was charged with carrying a screwdriver as having an offensive weapon or going equipped for burglarly. He turned up at magistrates court on his motorbike, and thus wearing motorcycling gear, the magistrate looked at him asked if he needed to adjust things on his bike often - he said yes its elderly British- then magistrate lambasted the police for wasting court time

 

[jhoney]

i would recommand the NASA MOBi mob indicator

 

[alex_m24]

i would recommand the NASA MOBi mob indicator

Hi thanks, is this from personal experience? Do you have one on your boat? Are they reliable?

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Wow!

Thanks for that: I'm sure it is all excellent advice and I will follow it very carefully.

As grumpy_o_g says, auto, crotch straps, hood, light and lifting loop, all essential.

We use these - all the above and a clever design on the bladder that helps divert waves from the mouth which won it praise in a test.

https://www.seagoyachting.co.uk/products/active/

 

[sharkshead]

I have witnessed my boat happily sailing away, nobody on board, with the Aries engaged!
It was fairly rough, and she was well balanced on a close reach, with just a touch of weather helm, so disengaging the Aries with a trailing line wouldn't have been a big help, apart from altering the exact point she crashed into Norway some hours later! She certainly would not have conveniently rounded up and sat in irons waiting for me, that's for sure..

Not arguing with the sensible points made above though. ( The story had a happy ending as she kindly got towed before hitting the rocks)

So how did you got rescued?
Another idea if the boat is sailing with a mechanical windvane could then be to route this trailing line from the side to the windvane itself, thereby pulling on the line will cause the vane to steer hard over? It would need some slip knot to prevent the constant tugging from the line itself, of course.

 

[Daydream believer]

Seajet

Thanks for that. I'll certainly have two horseshoe lifebuoys with drogues and lights (and whistle?)

OTE]
i would not bother. Just get one for the odd slip in the marina etc. If sailing you will not get it to the mob ( or close enough for them to reach it) and the mob should have an lj on any way. If teathered they will not want it
a dan buoy chucked in asap as a marker would be more use. It may not be next to mob but you will know it went in 100 yds past the mob so know where to look it will drift a bit more than the mob but at least you have something to give you a sight mark
i know from the many times i have been separated from my dinghy and sailboard that an mob should not try swimming just sit and wait. He cannot get far and best to conserve energy. 3 weeks ago i was 15 metres from my phantom and would never have got back ( i went after my wayward rudder) i just floated and waited for the safety boat. That way i conserved energy. same with mob who could then help get back on the boat

 

[thinwater]

Lots of theories re. last chance lines and pulling the rudder over.

I'm throwing down the gauntlet. Have any of you ever tried any of these methods? Tell us about that. If you have a theory, try it this weekend and write back after that. But I have NEVER heard of any one on any forum or searching, test such a system in the water. You need to understand just how slow people swim in clothes, particularly in foulies in cold water. Add an inflatable and it's even worse.

Until then, I call BS.

 

[JohnGC]

Lots of theories re. last chance lines and pulling the rudder over.

I'm throwing down the gauntlet. Have any of you ever tried any of these methods? Tell us about that. If you have a theory, try it this weekend and write back after that. But I have NEVER heard of any one on any forum or searching, test such a system in the water. You need to understand just how slow people swim in clothes, particularly in foulies in cold water. Add an inflatable and it's even worse.

Until then, I call BS.

+1

A quick bit of Googling;

Mark Phelps with a mono fin over a short distance, achieved 8.8mph.

The average swimmer 2mph.

A trained average swimmer 4mph.

The average forum member in foul weather gear and cold water, my guess, 0.5mph and not for long. Wouldn't easily keep up with a drifting yacht hove too. Add waves.....

Of course, adrenaline makes a difference when it's for real. I once managed to swim back to a beach after ignoring the safe swimming area flags and getting caught in a rip. I could hardly stand up once I reached the beach. Holding on to a rope or climbing a ladder would have been spectacularly hard after that.

 

[thinwater]

+1

A quick bit of Googling;

Mark Phelps with a mono fin over a short distance, achieved 8.8mph.

The average swimmer 2mph.

A trained average swimmer 4mph.

The average forum member in foul weather gear and cold water, my guess, 0.5mph and not for long. Wouldn't easily keep up with a drifting yacht hove too. Add waves.....

Of course, adrenaline makes a difference when it's for real. I once managed to swim back to a beach after ignoring the safe swimming area flags and getting caught in a rip. I could hardly stand up once I reached the beach. Holding on to a rope or climbing a ladder would have been spectacularly hard after that.

Add to that, that you were probably knocked into the water ars over tea kettle, by the boom, fast moving rigging, or a wave.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Lots of theories re. last chance lines and pulling the rudder over.

I'm throwing down the gauntlet. Have any of you ever tried any of these methods? Tell us about that. If you have a theory, try it this weekend and write back after that. But I have NEVER heard of any one on any forum or searching, test such a system in the water. You need to understand just how slow people swim in clothes, particularly in foulies in cold water. Add an inflatable and it's even worse.

Until then, I call BS.

During my last sailing skippers exam we had to maneuver the boat under sail to pick up a dan buoy as it it was a MOB. Most did the figure of 8 maneuver , I had a second danbuoy attached to a life ring attached to the danbuoy and attached by a long floating line which was in a throw bag ( stuffed in not coiled) we through that over and the put the helm had over to to circle the MOB ( danbuoy) and was able to encircle the MOB then stop up wind ( in lrons) away from the MOB then pull the MOB Danbuoy towards the boat. The MOB danbuoy, like a disabled MOB did not aid in any way.

As you say and thrown life rings may not help the MOB but it will give you a crumb trail to sail around the MOB.

Just made sure that if we had a crash gybe that all crew kept head down or if a number of crew that the main sail was centered ASAP.

 

[thinwater]

During my last sailing skippers exam we had to maneuver the boat under sail to pick up a dan buoy as it it was a MOB. Most did the figure of 8 maneuver , I had a second danbuoy attached to a life ring attached to the danbuoy and attached by a long floating line which was in a throw bag ( stuffed in not coiled) we through that over and the put the helm had over to to circle the MOB ( danbuoy) and was able to encircle the MOB then stop up wind ( in lrons) away from the MOB then pull the MOB Danbuoy towards the boat. The MOB danbuoy, like a disabled MOB did not aid in any way.

As you say and thrown life rings may not help the MOB but it will give you a crumb trail to sail around the MOB.

Just made sure that if we had a crash gybe that all crew kept head down or if a number of crew that the main sail was centered ASAP.

Do you typically sail with your wife, as a couple? Most do.

Then the question is, can you do the above drill by yourself, including getting the person on-board? Remember, most of us sail as pairs, so any drill that requires more than one person is not valid for most cruisers. The person doing the drill will most likely be your wife.

Think on that!

 

[Seajet]

I've been overboard as I mentioned earlier.

I have tried my ' last chance ' line connected to the autohelm, from a low pontoon and it worked - if you're such a hero you're welcome to try it and my other ideas offshore.

A long time ago when I was young, slim and fit I had a Dart 18 racing dinghy catamaran.

I took it out in a F7 and made the mistake of stalling at the tack instead of converting the energy into forward drive; she went over on her side.

Despite being young, fit and only in a wetsuit and buoyancy aid, it took self and crew a real 100% burst of energy to catch the boat as she blew sideways at quite a rate, the wind catching the trampoline.

A dozen yards more and we would never have caught up, luckily shore wouldn't have been far away or I'd never have risked it in the first place.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Do you typically sail with your wife, as a couple? Most do.

Then the question is, can you do the above drill by yourself, including getting the person on-board? Remember, most of us sail as pairs, so any drill that requires more than one person is not valid for most cruisers. The person doing the drill will most likely be your wife.

Think on that!

Yes but the excise I spoke about was with 6 crew.

I have my 2 life rings 2 dan buoys next to next to my centre steering wheel so can reach rings and dan buoy very easy. I have hydraulic steering so the helm stays put until I put the helm over.

My life rings have covers that a held on with velcro as are the dan buoys so it just rip open ans chuck .

I don't do anything to the sails until I am around the MOB head to wind.

Wife trained and practiced in procedure but in her case it helm over but turning opposite to the boom so you start with a tack. Then throw goodies.

To get me back on board I have lifting tackle on my taga which go back to the sheet winch of second winch. I have 2 each side of the cockpit.

I also have a outboard jib hoist that can be operated by cockpit a winch. one of my several spare halyards on the mast could also be used with the mast winch. This is bow wife and I get out 3.5 meter GRP tender on an off the fordeck so this can also be used.

I also have a stainless ladder that can be attached at various places around the side deck bow and stern.