Making the leap

[Appleyard]

After a few flotillas and a bit of free sailing,we have decided to make the big leap and buy our own boat.SWMBO is as keen as I am ,we are both 55 ish and are of the SKI persuasion (spend kids inheritance).We are considering buying in Greece or thereabouts with the intention of spending about 5-6 months afloat each year.
There are about a million and one questions to be asked ,and looking at the threads on these forums,I think that we have come to the right place to get no nonsense answers. Firstly.. what boat? we would be comfortable in a 36'-40',so what should we be looking for at this size?We have looked at Bennetaus and Janneaus but would prefer something a bit more solid .Our budget to buy is 50-60K All advice and thoughts will be appreciated.

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[DavidJ]

We looked at Greece for boat purchase because the prices seemed very keen. However there are VAT scams abound. Many people avoid VAT by saying their boat is used for charter and of course they promise to straighten things out if you buy their boat. We went through an agent as well and that was no better.
Finally bought in the UK and had it transported to the Med.
Be very very careful.
David

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[Appleyard]

Thanks David..This is the type of info. that I need to find out about. What exactly is the deal with VAT if buying in Greece or any other EU country for that matter?


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[Gerry]

If you are serious about longer-term living aboard and cruising (not leaving the boat in a marina and taking it out the odd weekend), Nigel Calder's recent articles in Yachting Monthly are about as clear as anyone in the business is going to get about what is needed (but the majority of modern boats do not provide).

Also the latest edition of the Atlantic Crossing Guide has an extended introduction on the characteristics of a suitable boat. Although these are well known, market forces seem to have driven mass production boats in directions that alarm some sailors.



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[bbilly]

Try searching for "VAT", there are some very detailed reponses to former postings. Personally I feel the Beneteaus, Jeanneaus and similar are ideal for the med but I am probably wrong as I am not a liveaboard. The size depends on the crew. The major issue seems to be experience.

Lucky you, so many choices to make!

Will



<hr width=100% size=1>"If you're too open minded your brains fall out"

 

[Melody]

Hi
We live in Greece and run a skippered yacht and RYA school here. There are some very good buys as long as you are careful, especially this year which has been poor for chartering. In Greece you do not have to pay VAT on a charter boat so if you buy an ex-charter boat it won't be VAT paid. However, I think the VAT is only 4% so you are better paying it here than in the UK.
Can give you the name of a good English speaking surveyor - you MUST have a survey as some damaged boats are patched up and offered for sale at normal price.
50K will get you a good boat here. Jeanneau are good for the seas here, and a big one is fine to live in. Make sure whatever you buy has plenty of room for fresh air - not lots of small spaces and hatches that don't open.
I wouldn't go through a company called Yacht Fractions as I've heard bad reports from a couple of people and we found they were adding big percentages onto their prices.
If you want to know more please ask.
Cheers
Melody

<hr width=100% size=1>Melody McKay Burton
Yacht Valentine, Greece

 

[Appleyard]

Thanks for the replies folks ,all of what you are saying makes sense and is appreciated. We have only a little sailing experience,but plan to do our Day skipper in the UK this winter,so that should be a move in the right direction.However we realise that there is no substitute for proper hands on sailing and will try to get some of this as well. We would not consider buying without a survey,so thanks ,Melody for the recommendation!! Hope to be able to take it up .
Our time scale for buying is about 18 months so we are not in a tearing rush,but obviously will be looking around during this period.The main question at the moment is what type of boat to go for? We reckon that we would be comfortable with a 35-36' boat as we have handled this size quite happily.There seem to be lots around at this range so what should we aim for and what to avoid?
Also what should we plan for in terms of normal running costs?I am a joiner/builder by trade and am also capable of servicing an engine,so would plan to do most of the repair and maintenance myself if possible.Our thoughts are to use the boat for 6 months of the year and have it taken out for the rest of the time,so this has to be considered. So put yourselves on our position, folks and let us have yout thoughts. Thanks

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[Appleyard]

Hi Gerry Will try to get hold of some recent copies of YM and look at the articles Cheers!

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[poter]

Re: Making the leap. GFI

If you are thinking about a yacht for liveaboard I would personally look at anything other than a ex-charter, yes they will be in reasonable nick but the layout will be set up for maximum no of berths, typically on a 36+, two cabins in the stern & 1 up at the sharp end, making the living area very small. If you look at an owners configeration you will get a lot more useable space IMHO.

I would also look at buying here and do any work you can in the UK. You will be used to the materials, have your tools here & most important you wont have a problem with the language. This also gives you a better understanding of your particular Yacht & will save you a lot of time & dosh in the long run, as you should be able to sort out problems yourself, without relying on expensive boatyards.

As far as a boat is concerned, I am biased towards heaver boats, but within your budget look at this nice Bill Dixon Moody 37' <A target="_blank" HREF=http://ybw.yachtworld.com/core/uk/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?boat_id=1227103&units=Feet&currency=GBP&access=Public&listing_id=32424&url=>here</A> (this was a quick search on YBW, if you wait a couple of months there should be quite a few around)

Plenty of room and just have a look at the extras you get, she has been well kitted out.
Very important you look at the cost of the extra kit as it is very expensive & will easily eat into any budget you have.

Good luck with the dream

GFI

Poter

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[Appleyard]

Re: Making the leap. GFI

Thanks Poter... this looks like the sort of boat that we would be interested in.I imagine that the age of any boat is an important factor..what should I consider when looking at an older boat?

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[AndrewB]

If you fancy a modern volume production fin-keeled cruising yacht around 36'-40', something like a Bénéteau or Jeanneau but rather more solid, then <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.hallberg-rassy.se/>Halberg-Rassy</A> springs to mind. But they are decidedly more expensive and I tend to agree with Bbilly that the former are perfectly suitable for mostly fair-weather Med cruising, liveaboard or otherwise. Bavaria, Dufour/Gibsea, Hunter/Legend, Moody are other makes of this general type that would be worth a look.

 

[Appleyard]

Thanks all....next question....Centre cockpit or rear ?

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[CharlesM]

Re: Making the leap. GFI

Poter

<< if you wait a couple of months there should be quite a few around) >>

I was wondering why you were saying this. Is it because people tend to put their boats up for sale in the spring perhaps?

Thanks

Charles (a prospective boat buyer)



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[angelsson]

You pose some of the same questions many others have, including myself. My personal solution was to go for the more traditional build with long keel, wine glass figure and weight. I nearly bought a Moody 36 but was messed about so much by the seller I pulled out. I eventually purchased a Camper Nicholson 38 ketch, and I am so pleased with her (the Moody seller did me a favour, please dont take that comment as a negative about Moody, they build super boats)and can recommend similar to anyone. She is so stable and sits in the water and not on it, ideal in the worst of it, and Camper have a long pedigree of quality and safety. They, like most boats, have their draw backs, the main one being trying to get her to go where I want her to in reverse in a busy marina! especially with a bit of wind on the bow, but with practice getting there ok. She has a centre cockpit with good visibility for mooring, and well all weather protected. What is best is very subjective, and I offer my comments as such. I do hope you find what you are looking for and you enjoy many happy hours in her.
Mike


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[hugh2004]

Yacht Surveyor

Can anyone recommend an english speaking Yacht Surveyor in Greece
regards Hugh

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[piscosour]

Re: Yacht Surveyor

Hugh

I am also looking for a surveyor in Greece. It may be economic to share the expence of flying out an english surveyor between a few of us. I'm currently based in Athens but can visit elsewhere. PM me if you are interested.

Graham

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[Gypsy]

If there are only going to be 2 of you aboard then stern cockpit is more convenient for the stern mooring method most often used in the Med. The helmsperson needs to be able to deal with the stern lines while the crew is dealing with the bow line or anchor. Some like to moor bows to the quay and there are some good arguments for that system but that still leaves a problem for the helmsperson for the stern line or stern anchor. Many use a danforth anchor for the stern kedge but the bigger the boat the more important to have a good anchor to ride to even in port when you can have winds blowing you onto the quay.

In my opinion virtually any of the AWB production boats will be perfect for the Med so long as you don't want to be fighting into F7+8's often. As a liveaboard you will have more time and be able to choose your cruising days so as to avoid the worst of the weather. The Med can rip up quite quickly with strong winds and sharp chop/waves but in 3 years cruising there full season we have never felt we were unable to find shelter. Once in shelter, pull out a book and wait for better weather.

A previous poster highlighted the need for an "airy" boat. This is most important, it gets VERY hot in August and you need good air circulation. Unfortunately most of the "Bluewater" boats built in the Northern Hemisphere have few opening hatches or side ports (understanably) so get very hot and uncomfortable in the Med summer. Our boat has opening side ports which are a pain to run and close when it rains (usually only spring and autumn) but are perfect for keeping the air circulating. As a bonus the cabin top is GRP and foam sandwich which menas good insulation and it is not uncommon for it to be cooler in the saloon than in the cockpit even though it has a large Bimini. And on that subject a bimini is a must, the larger the better. We also keep our dodger up for the sun protection.

Go for it!

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