Making an offer....

[blueglass]

He might be a poor sod who has lost his job and desperately needs a few grand to avoid losing his house too.

....or he could be a millionaire. So are you going to do a means test on all boat sellers to decide whether to pay over the odds or not?

 

[jonic]

jonic

many thanks for the kind offer.

ATB for 2011

Paul

No problem. I've pm'd you. She's well priced and very nice.

 

[andrewfollett]

....or he could be a millionaire. So are you going to do a means test on all boat sellers to decide whether to pay over the odds or not?

Im with you blue glass. lets keep charity for those in real need and conduct our house, boat, car and all other purchases, in a gentlemanly yet business like manner. No one need pay over the odds for anything. The OP was a simple question about how much he might knock off the asking price before making an offer not how to pay over the odds to save someone from poverty.

 

[blueglass]

Im with you blue glass. lets keep charity for those in real need and conduct our house, boat, car and all other purchases, in a gentlemanly yet business like manner. No one need pay over the odds for anything. The OP was a simple question about how much he might knock off the asking price before making an offer not how to pay over the odds to save someone from poverty.

exactly. I was beginning to think I was the only one living in the real world!

 

[Tranona]

That is because both buyers and sellers have thought about what the boat is worth, and the boat is generally surveyed to confirm that the buyer is getting pretty much what he expected to get.

So in the end, you both negotiated a price with which you were happy, and the buyer ended up getting what he was expecting to get. Nothing for anybody to be unhappy about.

Quite agree. But if you follow this and similar threads, most of what you get is adversarial, dodgy brokers, overpriced boats, recalcitrant sellers who overvalue their boats and tyre kicking buyers who are always complaining about.....! Makes you wonder how any boats change hands - but they clearly do.

 

[Ubergeekian]

....or he could be a millionaire. So are you going to do a means test on all boat sellers to decide whether to pay over the odds or not?

Not over the odds. A fair price.

How about you - would you haggle with a Big Issue seller?

 

[[2068]]

£3 or so and a "Thank you, but no" to the actual magazine works for me

The big issue seller outside where I was working a year or so back got stamped on and kicked to death by teenagers because he wouldn't give them a cigarette. Negotiating with someone who is probably going to spend your contribution on food or somewhere to sleep for the night seems a bit daft when you're running a twin engined planing motorboat for fun.

 

[blueglass]

Not over the odds. A fair price.

How about you - would you haggle with a Big Issue seller?

I genuinely do not understand your repeated comparison between boat sellers and big issue sellers. why are you so hung up on the idea that all those selling boats are charity cases?
for the record, I give freely to charity - I just seek out those who are in need of it.

 

[blueglass]

Negotiating with someone who is probably going to spend your contribution on food or somewhere to sleep for the night seems a bit daft when you're running a twin engined planing motorboat for fun.

A totally irrelevant statement. I Wondered how long flowerpower would last before he allowed his anti mobo bigotry to replace reasoned argument.

 

[[2068]]

A totally irrelevant statement. I Wondered how long flowerpower would last before he allowed his anti mobo bigotry to replace reasoned argument.

Huh?
(Falls off his chair laughing)

Hint: A Sealine S28 has the same number of sails as an Atlantic 38.

 

[[2068]]

I think the Big Issue thing is a bit of red herring.

If I were selling privately, as well as getting a fair price, I would prefer, if possible, the boat to go to a good home where it would be looked after. Maybe more like selling a horse?

 

[blueglass]

Huh?
(Falls off his chair laughing)

Hint: A Sealine S28 has the same number of sails as an Atlantic 38.

OK - you got me! now climbing back on to my own chair!

 

[sighmoon]

I've bought boats between 40% off the asking price, and 3% off the asking price, (I'd maybe have paid a bit more for the latter if the askign price were a bit higher).

It is important to get a written agreement, before you've paid for the survey that he will cover the full cost of rectifying any undisclosed issues which your surveyor discovers (he might reasonably want to draw the line at issues which make the boat unseaworthy, as the surveyor might want make a note of every scratch in the interior, for instance) If he is reluctant to do this, he knows something you don't know and is hoping that once you've committed by paying for the survey, you'll be more likely to pay a bit more. However agreeable the seller, you really do want this in writing. I say this as one who has comissioned 3 surveys before buying a boat this time round, and it works out pretty expensive.

 

[Ubergeekian]

I genuinely do not understand your repeated comparison between boat sellers and big issue sellers.

People keep telling me that the be all and end all of any purchase is getting the absolute lowest price. Nothing else matters, they say. And yet, they seem curiously loth to admit whether or not they apply this principle to buying the Big Issue.

 

[westernman]

People keep telling me that the be all and end all of any purchase is getting the absolute lowest price. Nothing else matters, they say. And yet, they seem curiously loth to admit whether or not they apply this principle to buying the Big Issue.

I have had dealings buying stuff in Asia - Thailand and Vietnam. The objective is never to beat the price down to the lowest possible level. If you do that, you will get the lowest possible level of service and the worst of the products off the production line.

Usually, by paying only a little bit more, you offer a very much higher margin for your Asian partner who will insure that you get a high level of service and the best product. That extra attention to quality is worth much more than getting the last possible 5% reduction off the cost.

Some very high priced fashion manufacturers some seem to have understood that and have sold real **** made in China at very inflated prices. You can get good quality from China if you make an effort.

 

[blueglass]

People keep telling me that the be all and end all of any purchase is getting the absolute lowest price. Nothing else matters, they say. And yet, they seem curiously loth to admit whether or not they apply this principle to buying the Big Issue.

losing the will to go on, but could it be that buying big issues and buying boats are very very different things ......but if it finally lays it to rest, here goes:

I do not /have not / will never negotiate the price of a big issue downwards. That's because big issue sellers are a needy cause.

I do/ have always/ will always negotiate the price of a boat downwards. That's because boat sellers are not a needy cause.

 

[Ubergeekian]

I've been thinking about this thread on a long drive today.

We seem to be getting a very one sided view of the offer and purchase process - all from buyers. To paraphrase:

• "There is no point in paying more than you absolutely have to",
• "I find out the seller's lowest price (from the broker employed by the seller, it seems, which seems charmingly naive) and offer not a penny more"

Meanwhile, of course, a similarly inclined seller would be saying

• "There is no point in taking less than you have to"
• "I find out the buyer's highest price and accept not a penny less"

Now, almost all the bargain hunters here seem to have assumed that of these two competing views, theirs must always prevail. They assume, in short, that every single boat purchase takes place in a buyers' market, with a desperate seller.

This is very illogical. Why should it always be the seller's lowest price which prevails, and not the buyer's highest?

The answer, I think, is a bit of self-deception in the aim of self-justification. Nobody likes paying more than they have to for anything, so there is always a desire on the part of a recent buyer to think "Hell, I got a good bargain there. He wouldn't have come down another penny. What a clever, tough, Alan-Sugaresque negotiator I am."

Meanwhile, of course, the equally deluded seller is thinking "Hell, I got a good bargain there. He wouldn't have come up another penny. What a clever, tough, Alan-Sugaresque negotiator I am."

Who's right? Neither of them. I doubt if there is a sale in a hundred, or in a thousand, which is genuinely at a fixed limit for either party. The last boat you bought or sold, gentle reader - can you honesty say that a tenner against you would have ended the deal?

So my position is this. Given that there is a range of prices which the seller will accept, and a range of prices which the buyer will pay, and that negotiation simply fixes a fairly arbitrary and mutually agreeable point along that continuum, why not do away with the macho histrionics, the tough guy glares and the money is king attitude? Sit down with the other side, chat to them, establish human relations and come to a conclusion which leaves both of you equally pleased.

Equally disappointed too, maybe. That may be unavoidable - but at least there will have been the feeling of having done business in an amicable and mutually regarding way with a real person. I find that much more rewarding than a false conviction that I have managed to get the best possible bargain.

One final thought. I wonder if sailing people and motor boat people in general tend to have different approaches? I get the impression in the motor boat forum that many posters there would expect to change boats every year or two - not long enough to built up much affection for a particular boat. Whereas I suspect that we sailing types tend to keep boats much longer and build up a wholly irrational personal relationship with our boats. That may affect how we buy and sell them, too.

 

[Ubergeekian]

I do not /have not / will never negotiate the price of a big issue downwards. That's because big issue sellers are a needy cause.

I do/ have always/ will always negotiate the price of a boat downwards. That's because boat sellers are not a needy cause.

I suspect that the sellers dealing with you take that into account.

Meanwhile, how about taxis? Do you always attempt to negotiate something off the meter? if not, why not?

 

[maxi77]

Why should it always be the seller's lowest price which prevails, and not the buyer's highest?

But is it, the seller may very well be prepared to accept a lower price than the one agreed, in fact the price agreed may well be above his expectations no matter what the original asking price.

 

[blueglass]

I suspect that the sellers dealing with you take that into account.

Meanwhile, how about taxis? Do you always attempt to negotiate something off the meter? if not, why not?

Of course they take it into account - that two way dialogue is what negotiates a price of mutual satisfaction. I'm not even going to start on taxis.