Maiden on telly

Re: Chauvinism in yachting. I was a bit surprised by the strength of Tracy Edwards' belief that women were not taken seriously. My recollection of racing in the 1980's was that there were a fair number of women in the fleets I sailed in, and there wasn't much discrimination aboard - they weren't all there just to do the sandwiches. A more obvious problem for Tracy was her lack of experience, from cook to skipper in just one step?

That having been said, the documentary made clear how badly she and her crew were belittled by the press ("Tarts in a tin!"). A really good watch last night with some great video clips of ocean racing.
 
That really was very good indeed. I read her book many years ago when it came out but the story seems much more impressive now, even more so when you factor in all of the modern advances in yacht design, materials, communications, clothing, nutrition, weather data, safety, navaids etc compared to 1989. Add in the fact that they all just learned the skills to basically refit/rewire/replumb the boat in the first place and it really is an incredible story of achievement.
 
AndrewB said:
Re: Chauvinism in yachting. I was a bit surprised by the strength of Tracy Edwards' belief that women were not taken seriously. My recollection of racing in the 1980's was that there were a fair number of women in the fleets I sailed in, and there wasn't much discrimination aboard - they weren't all there just to do the sandwiches. A more obvious problem for Tracy was her lack of experience, from cook to skipper in just one step?

That having been said, the documentary made clear how badly she and her crew were belittled by the press ("Tarts in a tin!"). A really good watch last night with some great video clips of ocean racing.
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I used to race from the Hamble from 1986 through to 1994 on various boats and I agree with your comment on women on board however the majority of Whitbread Boys thought they were rock stars and wrongly some of them thought they were one or two notches above everyone else let alone women racers. The late great Sir Peter Blake was however a lovely chap who gave me some time and signed I photo I took of them crossing the line.

I was lucky enough to work on the Hamble during some of the 1989/90 race and got to see Steinlager and F&P come across the line plus Fazazi being fitted out at Hamble Yacht Services. Great times.

Tracy Edwards was known as being difficult at the time - now it's easy to see why.
 
Watched the programme and was really impressed, not just by the production but by the crew and particularly by Tracy Edwards.
I raced from nid seventies to mid nineties, we had one female in our crew and we thought we valued her skills (she was the piano player, tweaked the halyards, outhaul etc. with skill and endurance, when not sailing she was studying for her Ph.D.) we treated her as well as anyone else but at big events she used to have to take a lot of stick, some other boats seemed to think she was just there because we were shagging her. So looking back chauvinism was as rife as portrayed, folk were just not sensitive to it. Very few competitive boats had females on board, we were not really aware of it but the prejudice was all around us.
Bob Fisher was racing then as well as spouting his arrogant tripe as a journalist, nothing more satisfying than tacking on top of him, most of the fleet used to take every opportunity. So while the prejudice against females has lessened, it is good to see journalists and politicians replace them.
 
It was worth watching but a bit frustrating. It clearly had a strongly feminist agenda and rather over-played that. Seemed to be trying to say that Maiden was the best boat in the fleet and they were unlucky not to win.

But even though it was very pro Edwards it did seem that she wasn't quite up to the job (nothing to do with being a woman btw) and in fact she was a bit lucky to get round in one piece.
 
Quandary said:
Watched the programme and was really impressed, not just by the production but by the crew and particularly by Tracy Edwards.

...looking back chauvinism was as rife as portrayed, folk were just not sensitive to it.
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bedouin said:
It was worth watching but a bit frustrating. It clearly had a strongly feminist agenda and rather over-played that. Seemed to be trying to say that Maiden was the best boat in the fleet and they were unlucky not to win.

But even though it was very pro Edwards it did seem that she wasn't quite up to the job (nothing to do with being a woman btw) and in fact she was a bit lucky to get round in one piece.
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I disagree slightly with the "overplaying the feminist agenda" bit. While everything is different now in terms of the lens through which things are viewed, frankly the culture was considerably more chauvinist, and many (but clearly not all!) of those top racing blokes would have seen themselves as big swinging dicks. As documented in her own words at the time, she didn't set out as a feminist to prove anything ideological but later - perhaps once the culture of the time had overplayed its prejudiced hand - she did start to see things differently.

I however agree that Edwards lacked the experience. She and her crew were the clear outsiders, and she was a slightly rough diamond with difficult childhood experiences. But she had the determination to do it and, once underway, the drive to win - and that aspect of her personality rather than a blunt gender-agenda was what came through in the programme.
 
Babylon said:
I disagree slightly with the "overplaying the feminist agenda" bit. While everything is different now in terms of the lens through which things are viewed, frankly the culture was considerably more chauvinist, and many (but clearly not all!) of those top racing blokes would have seen themselves as big swinging dicks. As documented in her own words at the time, she didn't set out as a feminist to prove anything ideological but later - perhaps once the culture of the time had overplayed its prejudiced hand - she did start to see things differently.

I however agree that Edwards lacked the experience. She and her crew were the clear outsiders, and she was a slightly rough diamond with difficult childhood experiences. But she had the determination to do it and, once underway, the drive to win - and that aspect of her personality rather than a blunt gender-agenda was what came through in the programme.
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To be clear I think it was the programme that had the feminist vs chauvanist agenda, not Edwards herself. To me that rather detracted from her real achievement in getting the boat together and getting it around the world.
 
A boat question. I missed finding the source of the leak but saw someone with a gasket in the dark. What caused it?
 
It wasn't particularly clear in the programme, but it seemed that driving the yacht too hard in rough weather off the Falklands caused a leak at the mast - hence the gasket.
 
AndrewB said:
I was a bit surprised by the strength of Tracy Edwards' belief that women were not taken seriously.
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Given the central theme of the film which is even stronger in the talks Ms. Edwards gives, it's disappointing that she doesn't even namecheck Clare Francis (or any other female sailor who preceded her). I heard Edwards speak at a women's business network meeting and non-sailors attending could have been forgiven for thinking that she was the first woman to set foot on a racing boat in any capacity other than cook.
 
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Babylon said:
It wasn't particularly clear in the programme, but it seemed that driving the yacht too hard in rough weather off the Falklands caused a leak at the mast - hence the gasket.
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So from above rather than below? I suppose there must have been a lot of green stuff from above.
 
laika said:
Given the central theme of the film which is even stronger in the talks Ms. Edwards gives, it's disappointing that she doesn't even namecheck Clare Francis (or any other female sailor who preceded her). I heard Edwards speak at a women's business network meeting and non-sailors attending could have been forgiven for thinking that she was the first woman to set foot on a racing boat in any capacity other than cook.
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There's a lot of it about, when Ellen MacArthur started making her name on the French Multi / Open class scene it was as though Florence Arthaud never existed
 
Inspirational. Without the physical strength that the all-male crews will have had to hand, imagine the psychological fortitude they all must have had to make up for it. Combined with the scepticism from the sailing/ sponsorship community that is a very determined group of people. Hats off to them
 
Having no interest in racing at any level, I was surprised to find myself glued to this.

The enormous scale and remoteness of the course, the harshness and sheer risk of the Southern Ocean route and their undimmed courage and vision in taking a smallish sailing boat such a distance while always pressing ahead, transcends competition - it's just a magnificent achievement and their position in the race was to me irrelevant, whatever it may have meant to skipper and crew.

I feel the same about all sailing boats making long passages, but it was hard not to enjoy seeing or hearing of swaggering male competitors (or pundits ashore) who weren't happy that an all-female crew was taking part. Were they afraid that the whole undertaking lost some its air of daunting difficulty if the fairer sex competed on equal terms and did equally well?
 
bedouin said:
But even though it was very pro Edwards it did seem that she wasn't quite up to the job (nothing to do with being a woman btw) and in fact she was a bit lucky to get round in one piece.
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Mmmm. Clearly they started out as inexperienced relative to some other boats, but you need more than luck to win their class in not one but two of the toughest Southern Ocean legs - the huge South America to Australia one and then Australia to New Zealand. To keep the rig safely above the boat for thousands of miles, going faster than all similar sized boats through iceberg infested water takes huge guts and ability.
How many southern ocean race legs have you - or any of us on here - won? If not been there we cannot belittle the staggering achievement.

Clearly they weren’t expecting to arrive ahead of the 85 footers like Steinlager 2, or the rest of the 80 foot maxis, in a much smaller boat.
 
dunedin said:
Mmmm. Clearly they started out as inexperienced relative to some other boats, but you need more than luck to win their class in not one but two of the toughest Southern Ocean legs - the huge South America to Australia one and then Australia to New Zealand. .
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Remind me how many boats were in their class :)
 
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