mad dog bites fishermen

[PaulGooch]

Well, I can see the issue, Haydn.

Anchored in a channel, with a stream running which produces a bow wave & boat sheering about as if being driven. Anchor warp would be small and hard to see & relative speeds are hard to judge when approaching head on.

It does illustrate the difficulties of "standing on" only to find that one isn't the stand-on vessel a little too late. Thanks for sharing it Tamar.

You're kidding, right ? You wouldn't notice that the boat hadn't actually moved any closer ?

How close were you gong to pass, before you realised it was anchored ?

Anchored or not, if it was hit head on, it was going to be a head on collision anyway.

Stand on or not, colregs and common sense dictate a suitable passing distance and colregs has the last word, you avoid a collision, stand on or not.

It it had been a mobo hitting an anchored sailboat head on, it would have been a different story.

 

[Philiz]

Colregs or not, the Prince Madog is close to 400 tonnes, if it's on the move I make sure I'm well out of its way.

Incidentally, good eye-catching title for this post Searush!

 

[Searush]

You're kidding, right ? You wouldn't notice that the boat hadn't actually moved any closer ?

How close were you gong to pass, before you realised it was anchored ?

Anchored or not, if it was hit head on, it was going to be a head on collision anyway.

Stand on or not, colregs and common sense dictate a suitable passing distance and colregs has the last word, you avoid a collision, stand on or not.

It it had been a mobo hitting an anchored sailboat head on, it would have been a different story.

Think about it a bit Paul.

You are closing the anchored boat so it will apear to be moving towards you, especially as it is shearing about & has a wash off the bow. Tamar's post has made me think a bit. All I'm trying to do is encourage others to do so. Appearance isn't always what it seems, I want to learn from his mistake - perhaps you don't need to, but perhaps you simply don't see the need to.

How many of us have been swept on to, or very close to, bouys in strong tides? See what I mean? It can be difficult to judge relative speeds (even when one of the parties is stationary!)

Anyway, I ain't throwing any stones in this case, my glasshouse is far too vulnerable.

 

[TamarMike]

Trespassers will be persecuted

You're kidding, right ? You wouldn't notice that the boat hadn't actually moved any closer ?

How close were you gong to pass, before you realised it was anchored ?

Anchored or not, if it was hit head on, it was going to be a head on collision anyway.

Stand on or not, colregs and common sense dictate a suitable passing distance and colregs has the last word, you avoid a collision, stand on or not.

It it had been a mobo hitting an anchored sailboat head on, it would have been a different story.

I most certainly wasn't proud of myself at the time and learn't a valuable lesson. Having seen another boat and decided I wasn't going to have to give way to it I dismissed it from my mind when it disappeared to leeward behind the large dipping lugsail (which has a similar effect on visibility as for instance a large genoa). I was probably more concerned with setting a course to avoid impeding the Torpoint chain ferries and keeping a look out for other larger vessels when the little boat reappered only a boat length of two ahead of me. As there was little wind and I was on a run the boat was slow to respond to bringing up the helm and with a following tide I failed to clear the other boat.

I mentioned it here as it seemed possible that the master of Price Madog might perhaps similarly have dismissed the fishermen from his mind then lost sight of them beneath the bows of his ship.

After the above incident and two seperate occasions sailing dinghies collided with my stern because their view was restricted by their sails I made sure I remain aware of ALL other vessels in my vicinity.

 

[misterg]

More info here

"Earlier that day two fishermen were taken to Ysbyty Gwynedd, Bangor, with whiplash injuries and a broken wrist when their 16ft vessel collided with the 390-tonne Prince Madog on the Menai Strait.

According to a Holyhead Coastguard spokeswoman the £2.8m research vessel from the School of Ocean Sciences at Bangor University, which trains marine scientists also collided with another vessel later that day as it tried to manoeuvre out of the way of a jet-ski.

No-one was in the other vessel at the time"

Doesn't sound like the skipper of the PM was having a very good day...

Andy

 

[Searush]

Quite an exciting day all round. Sadly, I can see the skipper of the Prince M getting a bit of a holiday for the immediate future.

Having said that, there is very little room in the channel there, so add high winds & mega tides, then anchoring on a bend in the channel may not have been the smartest move by the fishermen - and the jetskier should be shot for impeding the progress of a 400 ton vessel in such conditions in a restricted channel, what the heck was he thinking of?

 

[misterg]

...Stand on or not, colregs and common sense dictate a suitable passing distance...

I don't know if you are familiar with the area, but assuming you arent:

AFAIK, the collision happened off Gallows Point. The channel there is ~100m wide (maybe ~50m for something with the draft of the PM - the PM is 35m long). The channel passes next to / through swinging moorings, and the sand-bank opposite is a popular spot for fishing. Just to the NE of Gallows Point the channel makes an abrupt dog-leg.

Edit: According to the quote in post#7 the collision occurred at the 'dog-leg'

Your point is valid, however it is normal to pass close to other vessels on this part of the channel. I wouldn't want to be the one piloting the PM through this lot:

(Gallows point is where it says "North West Venturer's Yacht Club"[*] and the PM's berth is down the Straits to the SW)




Andy


[*] - You can pay me later.

 

[Tintin]

More info here

"........when their 16ft vessel collided with the 390-tonne Prince Madog on the Menai Strait."

Didn't Madog collide with them? Or am I reading it wrong?

 

[PaulGooch]

I don't know if you are familiar with the area, but assuming you arent:

<snip>

Thanks for the info Andy, but my comment was in response to the collision between TamarMike and the small fishing boat.

 

[Searush]

Didn't Madog collide with them? Or am I reading it wrong?

Ahh, well, that depends on which report you read. BBC said that the fishing boat hit PM at Gallows point. But forum eyewitness says they were hit by the PM while anchored 400yds NE of Menai Pier (which could be St George's pier where the PM is normally moored) and is quite a bit S of Gallows point.

Edit:But it could also be Bangor Pier (not far from opposite Gallows pt), or Beaumaris pier (at the next channel dog leg)!

 

[TSB240]

Experienced Seaman?

Steve that Menai canal is just getting too narrow and busy.
Perhaps they should restrict use to CEVNI ticket holders only

That would thin out the water fleas and rubber flubbers

Also accident is probably grounds for a no anchor zone I reckon

Do we know who this is??? Could it be a well known rib owner of this Parish?

"Former Daily Post picture editor and experienced seaman Richard Williams was one of a number of people caught out in the Menai Strait.

Mr Williams, 61, of Old Conwy was in his 5.5m rib, Sea Rider, off Menai Bridge Pier when he got into difficulties.

He said: “It’s the first time in 40 years that I’ve had to send a mayday. It was a pretty hairy moment.

“The tide was exceptionally high and it was pretty windy out there too. My outboard motor got caught up in a buoy which I couldn’t see as it was submerged in the water.”

By the time he called the rescue team the rib was “80% submerged”.

“As I was making my mayday call to the coastguard my radio equipment became submerged as well but, I could see that happening and warned I was likely to lose communication.

“Fortunately another boat had seen me in distress and managed to pick me out of the water and take me to shore just before the Beaumaris lifeboat got there.”

Mr Williams later recovered his rib, as the tide went out."

It couldnt possibly be or am I just going Kwackers

Steve

 

[PaulGooch]

Ahh, well, that depends on which report you read. BBC said that the fishing boat hit PM at Gallows point. But forum eyewitness says they were hit by the PM while anchored 400yds NE of Menai Pier (which could be St George's pier where the PM is normally moored) and is quite a bit S of Gallows point.

Edit:But it could also be Bangor Pier (not far from opposite Gallows pt), or Beaumaris pier (at the next channel dog leg)!

Perhaps the two incidents mentioned in post #25 ?

 

[misterg]

Thanks for the info Andy, but my comment was in response to the collision between TamarMike and the small fishing boat.

Sorry!

 

[misterg]

Ahh, well, that depends on which report you read. BBC said that the fishing boat hit PM at Gallows point. But forum eyewitness says they were hit by the PM while anchored 400yds NE of Menai Pier (which could be St George's pier where the PM is normally moored) and is quite a bit S of Gallows point.

Edit:But it could also be Bangor Pier (not far from opposite Gallows pt), or Beaumaris pier (at the next channel dog leg)!

Oops - I read Menai Pier as Beaumaris pier

In which case, the fishing boat must have been somewhere close to the building on the mainland. Fewer excuses here - it's nowhere near as congested as it it around Beaumaris.

 

[Kawasaki]

Steve that Menai canal is just getting too narrow and busy.
Perhaps they should restrict use to CEVNI ticket holders only

That would thin out the water fleas and rubber flubbers

Also accident is probably grounds for a no anchor zone I reckon

Do we know who this is??? Could it be a well known rib owner of this Parish?

"Former Daily Post picture editor and experienced seaman Richard Williams was one of a number of people caught out in the Menai Strait.

Mr Williams, 61, of Old Conwy was in his 5.5m rib, Sea Rider, off Menai Bridge Pier when he got into difficulties.

He said: “It’s the first time in 40 years that I’ve had to send a mayday. It was a pretty hairy moment.

“The tide was exceptionally high and it was pretty windy out there too. My outboard motor got caught up in a buoy which I couldn’t see as it was submerged in the water.”



It couldnt possibly be or am I just going Kwackers

Steve

Just going Kwackers i,m afraid

Said namesake, yeh no relative but I do know him!
Experienced seaman blurb says

'Mayday' just off Menai Bridge pier?

Rollocks

Motor stuck on mooring, well cut the fecker then.
Couldn't see the boy cos it was submerged.
High water in the Strait O Experienced one that's what happens:rolleyes And high water in the Strait and you will float nicely away and come to no harm.

'The tide was exceptionally high' , no it wasn't, it was Springs plus a bit of an Easterly plus a bit of High Pressure. So maybe a ft or two above the 'predicted'.

Now about the Madog bashing someone by the Pier.
'Anchored 400 yds N/E of the pier'
Yeh, right in the Madog's approach!
That area is kept clear of moorings specifically for the Madog to approach the pier.

At Gallows point
It does get very narrow there especially at low water
OK for pleasure boats at all states of the tide
But not much room for a 300 tonner.
Little boats should just get out of the way
Jet skis should do the same
It's nowt to do with Col Regs, restrained by draught de blah de blah
It's just common sense.

Lots of us play in the Strait
It's a great place.
Most know about the tides and the speed water rips through in certain places.
Lots don't.

I dunno any of the details except those read on here
Big boats smashing small boats is a rare occurence hereabouts.
There is not much commercial traffic
The Madog and a few large mussel dredgers.

Maybe thats why, ignorance of what a larger vessels manouvering abilities are.
Funny place the Strait can get a bit busy through the Summer but mostly quite quiet.
When it is busy, full of mobos , fishermen, saily cruisers, saily boats racing around cans, old f"rts in RIBS, peeps learning to sail and mobo etc etc etc
'Rules of the Road'
'Col Regs'? do me a favour

It just doesn't happen!

As said , very rare for collisions.
It will be interesting to learn what really happened ref the Mad Dog

 

[Searush]

Some interesting comments there. Yeah, bouys do go under at flood - but you can often see the lump in the water where they've gone tho - especially if the are near enough to the surface to catch yer prop.

My first boat was once nearly dragged under at Conway with the family aboard . I soon cut the damn thing free with a bread knife - even tho it was my own warp I was cutting! Followed by an exciting run to the stern to start the o/b before we hit the next boat in the line of moorings. I now use much longer warps for temporary connection to unknown moorings in big tide locations.

I hope the skipper of the PM doesn't get into too much trouble, it's not an easy job getting in & out of there in a big boat.