Lyme Disease And Ticks

[Stemar]

At least people are aware of Lyme's disease now. Time was when it was rare, so GPs weren't on the lookout for it and it often wasn't diagnosed until it was too late and causing long-term disability. My brother in law had this happen to him in France, so it isn't just in the UK.

It appears there's recent research that suggests the long-term effects are an auto-immune disease that's triggered by the infection.

 

[Caraway]

Someone will explain:

Why is it that it is possible to provide domestic pets with devices or medication that will deter ticks - why is it so difficult to design something similar for humans?

As far as I can ascertain the investment in researrch has come up with

wear yellow

wear Wellington boots

its the 21st Century!! ??

Jonathan

Well the tick removers work really well on humans. The link Rusy Barge offered leads to an item out of stock. They're available here NatureAqua Tick Remover, Tick Removal Tools for Dogs Cats and Humans | Removes Entire Head & Body | Pain-Free Tic Remover | 100% Chemical-Free Tick Hook | Pack of 3 : Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies
But all vets sell them.

 

[Neeves]

You are not alone - we have ticks in Australia, but like our sharks, crocodiles, jelly fish, stone fish, spider - maybe ours are more lethal (to non-australians - we are used to living dangerously . We have 2 sorts of tick, a small variety called a grass tick, smaller then a pin head and larger ones a a few millimetres in size (or they are when full of blood.

Tick tweezers are great - except you need someone to use them. They are not much use if you have a tick on your back or head. You need a wife, partner or a mirror.

One's back is most insensitive and you can carry a tick on your back and you will not know why you are feverish. The effect is a bit like having flu (or covid (not had covid so don't know). The inflammation of the bite is sore but the flu like symptoms much worse.

Prevention is much better than tweezers.

Where there are ticks we work fully clothed, boots, long trousers, gaiters (or are they puttees), long sleeves, hats - really great fun when it 35 degrees and more. Clothing is all sprayed with insecticide.

Jonathan

 

[Caraway]

It's a strange thing that I haven't got to the bottom of yet. Whilst a human with a tick bite will react, the underlying problems can take years to surface.
Among the animal kingdom that is very likely to be longer than their natural lifespan. So is a tick bite of little consquence to an animal?

 

[Robin]

Would a flea/tick collar for a dog work on humans, not necessarily worn as collar or even on neck ?

 

[Fiddlesticks]

Nasty disease, son had it. The NHS were no help at all, but we found a retired doctor who knew a lot about the subject, and had started a non-profit community clinic to help people with Lyme. Although I was initially sceptical, the coil machine treatment worked for him.

 

[Metabarca]

My local pharmacy, a national chain (not in an area known for ticks), carries them. They basically hook round the head of the tick and allow it to be pulled out without squeezing the body of the tick. Mechanical means of removing ticks are preferred, as long as they don't squeeze the tick's body. Basically, chemical methods of removing them can make things worse as the tick regurgitates it's stomach contents which can then infect you. As long as the tick sucks, you're less likely to be infected.

Those with dogs in a tick infested area might wish to consult their vet about appropriate anti-tick medication (like anti-flea medication) as there are some serious infections for dogs that are carried by ticks.

No, DON'T pull: using the tick remover suggested by Rustyknight, you should 'unscrew' the tick. That way it comes out with the head and so reduces the possibility of infection.
Unfortunately, they're endemic here too and can carry not only Lyme disease but also cause encephalitis (this is for the moment restricted to ticks in the Carnic Alps area of NE Italy). But if you got to any islands in Dalmatia, buy a set of tick removers!
Doctors here are very switched on to the risk and there's no chance of lack of diagnosis as happened to the person mentioned in the Beeb.
Got lots here, sadly, even in the garden (I'm in an area with lots of mammals – jackals, bears, wolves, deer, boar...)

 

[sarabande]

Serious suggestion (agricultural life with deer and other herbivores prevalent)

I have a small bottle of surgical spirit (from Mole Valley Farmers). A quick dab of the liquid and the tick "cringes" and releases the bite very quickly.

Some surgical spirit contains castor oil as a skin lubricant as well as a disinfectant. Those mixtures seems to work well.

 

[jimi]

I caught this from an infected tick over 10 years ago and have had problems since. Currently back on doxycycline after another flare up. Don't underestimate this danger.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Serious suggestion (agricultural life with deer and other herbivores prevalent)

I have a small bottle of surgical spirit (from Mole Valley Farmers). A quick dab of the liquid and the tick "cringes" and releases the bite very quickly.

Some surgical spirit contains castor oil as a skin lubricant as well as a disinfectant. Those mixtures seems to work well.

All I have read says that you should NOT use techniques like this. Apparently, it can cause the tick to regurgitate the blood it has taken back into the host, thereby increasing the chance of infection manyfold. You're safe enough as long as blood is only passing from you to the tick, but if there's a reverse flow (which squeezing the tick's body or using chemical techniques can cause) then any disease carried by the tick can pass into you.

 

[sarabande]

AP, I have yet to find (though I have not looked intensively) confirmation of the regurgitation suggestion. If you come across proof, it would be very welcome. It may well be a popular extension of the 'squeezed' tic theory.

Thanks

As n additional question, I am less than happy about the antipodean idea of spraying insecticide on clothing to prevent tick attack. I have a fair idea, as a qualified agricultural sprayer, of how the various '-cides' work and having a poison on my clothing, subsequently to be put by hand into a washing machine, does not seem sensible.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

AP, I have yet to find (though I have not looked intensively) confirmation of the regurgitation suggestion. If you come across proof, it would be very welcome. It may well be a popular extension of the 'squeezed' tic theory.

Thanks

As n additional question, I am less than happy about the antipodean idea of spraying insecticide on clothing to prevent tick attack. I have a fair idea, as a qualified agricultural sprayer, of how the various '-cides' work and having a poison on my clothing, subsequently to be put by hand into a washing machine, does not seem sensible.

See, for example, this: Tick removal | CDC, which states that both squeezing and chemical removal are not good.

 

[sarabande]

It's the mouth parts that CDC (and UK docs) worry about. No mention of regurgitation. I continue to suspect the regurgitation theory stems from what people see when a tick is forcefully pulled out of skin. The head detaches and the digestive track is exposed, allowing the yukky insides to squirt out.


CDC mentions rubbing alcohol and "alcohol" as a response.

 

[jimi]

Tick Removal | Lyme Disease Action disease is carried by some ticks via bacteria and generally the tick has to have been feeding for 24 hrs to enable transmission. This suggests that transmission is not from the bite alone but from the transmission of bacteria owned by the tick to the host. It would therefore be commonsense to deduce that causing a tick to regurgitate its stomach contents into the host's bloodstream is not a great plan of action.

Tick removal | CDC

Note the warning at the bottom about folklore remedies.

 

[wully1]

1 tick removed from behind my knee after a full day tramping about woodland with trousers tucked into boots and Tick Magic applied..... Noticed just after lunchtime that the tick bitten legs trouser had come out of my boots.
Going back to wearing gaiters from now on.

And another tick removed from my side last night.... I’ve ordered some Permetherin to treat my clothes...

 

[Metabarca]

Tick Removal | Lyme Disease Action disease is carried by some ticks via bacteria and generally the tick has to have been feeding for 24 hrs to enable transmission. This suggests that transmission is not from the bite alone but from the transmission of bacteria owned by the tick to the host. It would therefore be commonsense to deduce that causing a tick to regurgitate its stomach contents into the host's bloodstream is not a great plan of action.

Tick removal | CDC

Note the warning at the bottom about folklore remedies.

I certainly wouldn't use tweezers as suggested there: it's far to easy to squeeze the whole beastie. After all, if you catch them early they are way smaller than a pinhead; how on earth could you get a tweezer around just the head of a tick that size? No, go for the dedicated tick toolkit: two or three sizes to cater for all ticks and UNSCREW them from your skin.

 

[Caraway]

I just hold the tick remover between thumb and forefinger and twizzle the handle. That seems to give 2/2.5 turns which releases the little bugger.

 

[Seven Spades]

Is this a new issue? I don't remember ever hearing of this infection before watching "House" and even then it was referring to people in the US. Has this arrived on the UK in recent years and of so how did it get here.

 

[Caraway]

Been around for ages. But since 2010 it became a notifiable disease Lyme Disease - Institute of Infection and Global Health - University of Liverpool

While Lyme is thought of as a disease of the northeast U.S., according to George Schmid and colleagues, the first known case of ECM, but apparently not Lyme, actually occurred in Europe in 1910. The first known case in the U.S. occurred in Wisconsin in 1970, but that case was described in isolation and not linked to what would eventually be named Lyme disease. The disease was not formally described until 1977, when two women, unrelated except that both were residents of Old Lyme, Connecticut, separately reported inexplicable arthritis symptoms. The condition can now be found across much of the U.S. and many other countries.

Leaflet for your edification https://assets.publishing.service.g...achment_data/file/694158/PHE_Tick_Leaflet.pdf


About Lyme Disease in the UK A Brief History of Lyme Disease | JSTOR Daily

Studies of the DNA taken from ticks in the Natural History Museum show Borrelia bacteria were in the UK in Victorian times but this may have reflected the presence of the non-pathogenic B valaisianna which is very common in UK ticks. Lyme borreliosis has been known in mainland Europe for more than a century, but the first recorded case of an erythema migrans in the UK was in 1977 and the number of Lyme disease cases has been rising since then.

Very interesting. Well I thought so anyway.

I find myself in grass and bracken quite often, so usually check for ticks. Anywhere sheep or deer have been wandering about is risky. I have had a couple this year.

 

[wully1]

It was never as bad before they banned sheep dip.... allegedly.