Lulworth Cove nightmare

Re: Alternatively

Not sure about your comment concerning mobos. Most mobos have good size anchors and loads of chain - my boat has a 20kg Bruce with 75m of chain, not uncommon for mobos this size. Most manufacturers recognise that mobos impart far greater loads on anchors than sailboats and size the anchors/chains accordingly

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Thats not my experience. I found that mobo owners are generally aware that their boats carry more windage and are more careful where they sling their hook. I think its a more a nationality thing anyway. The French and the Spanish seem not too bothered how and where they anchor whereas the Germans and we Brits take a bit more care
I saw a Spanish bloke in Ibiza motor what looked like a brand new 40' Jeanneau yacht into an anchorage one evening and drop his hook much to close to another Spanish boat. Sure enough, within minutes, they'd collided. The bloke tied one solitary fender to his stern quarters and buggered off to the beach! Both boats were still there in the morning

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What size anchor do you have? Most motor boats I see have miniscule anchors that are only suitable for spending a few hours at lunch, not for spending the night. Motor boats also have huge windage compared to sailing boats, and are also far lighter, so they blow all over the place at anchor.

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Thats rubbish. Every motor boat I ever owned (thats 10 in total) has had a properly sized anchor in accordance with the anchor manufacturer's instructions and plenty of chain because I always check. If you read the post properly you will see that, initially at least, the anchor did'nt drag but the windlass let go. Yes, mobos carry more windage, no they are not lighter length for length, in fact they are heavier, and, yes, they veer about but there's no reason why a mobo with a properly set anchor and enough chain should'nt anchor overnight

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Re: Alternatively

mike,
I reliase that generalisations are dangerous but I still stick by mine here.
To be more specific that previously - if given a choice mobo's (planning) will go for the lighter gear that 'should do the job', and raggies will go one heavier 'just to make sure'. my experiences and observations are based on the southcoast and probably many mobo owners do only use their anchors for 'lunch hooking' - if at all! whilst the raggies overnight more often and sometimes even in a breeze /forums/images/icons/smile.gif.
An example from the weekend would include a 38ft Sunseeker with a 7.5kg Bruce.....
I would certainly not suggest that any manufacturer fitted less than adaquate gear to their craft but for smaller and second hand craft they are an aftermarket addition.
Finally I agree completely re your other comments - and I do realise that this thread didn't start from the premise of an inadaquately equipped boat - most of my post was around things you can do when you find it necessary to anchor where the holding isn't great.

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Re: Alternatively

No, Duncan, I dont agree with that. Overnight anchoring in the UK may be a choice option but in the Med, its compulsory during July and August simply because there are no marina visitors berths so mobo anchors have to be just as secure as yacht anchors. Having said this, in my limited experience, there are differences. Usually, anchor suppliers give recommendations for both working and storm anchor sizes. Your example of the Sunseeker is a case in point. For that length of boat, Bruce's own recommendations for a working anchor size is 7.5kg so you could'nt accuse Sunseeker of undersizing the anchor. I've noted that some manufacturers choose to specify the working size of anchor (eg Sealine) and some the storm size (eg Fairline, Azimut). My own boat has a 20kg Bruce which is the storm size anchor for that size of boat
But anchor size is not the only factor though. FWIW, my observation is that mobos tend to carry lots of chain whereas yachts seem to carry a combination of rope and chain. I reckon most 40foot mobos carry 40-50m of chain, my own boat carries 75m as standard. IMHO, I would rather rely on the catenary effect of the chain than the holding power of the anchor not to mention the security of some rusty old shackle connecting the chain to the anchor
I think the only thing you can generalise about is that you'd rather anchor overnight in a yacht than a mobo simply because of the lesser windage but thats not the same as saying that mobos have 'lighter gear'


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Re: Alternatively

ah well we will just have to disagree about a few points and I am certainly not getting drawn into all chain discussions etc /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

btw I believe the primary reason most mobo's of around that size carry 'all chain' is because of the ease of use with an electric windlass

<hr width=100% size=1>madesco madidum ..../forums/images/icons/smile.gif
 
Some advice meant in a friendly manner. I'm a yachtmaster and spent two years as a W Indies charter skipper. I've had some nasty times at anchor, the worst once in Salvador, Brasil. There's a way to be sure, when bad weather looks likely. First your bower anchor must be heavy enough, meaning ten pounds heavier than recommended for the boat. CQR or Bruce seem the best all-rounders, I prefer the CQR, its sharp point grips almost anywhere. Your kedge can be 10-15 pounds lighter. Then a dinghy hook, about ten pounds, maybe a grapnel or a Danforth or something different. You come to stop, lower (do not 'drop') your bower until it's on the bottom. Let out twice the depth of chain as you start to motor gently back until it snags (slight jerk), then shackle your kedge on to the chain,lower it while letting out four times water depth and motor back hard to dig them both well in. Use a rolling hitch or a prussik to tie a heavy length of nylon (for the springyness) rope to the chain, then cleat that to a bow mooring cleat, and let out more chain until it hangs in a loop between rope and cleat without banging against your bow. That has never shifted in my long experience. That night in Brasil when trouble began, I hauled in as far as seemed sensible, shackled my dinghy anchor to the chain, lowered that, let out plenty more and re-tied the snubber. We were stuck there embayed off a lee shore for two days, in a howling gale and big breaking waves. I lost count of the number of times the 2 ton snubber snapped and I replaced it. The main point is that through all that the anchors didn't budge. When it all calmed down and we hauled and left, the little Danforth's stock was bent into a right angle, but the two CQR's showed no signs of strain. That's how I know that my method works. I offer it to you in a spirit of friendly seamanship. And NEVER expect your windlass gypsy to act as a mooring cleat ; use a properly fitted cleat or bitts.
 
By the way, lying to two anchors at 90 deg to each other is known as a 'Bahamian Moor'. In theory, nice. However, it results in your boat lying first to one anchor, then to the other, and if the holding isn't good the swinging boat simply 'walks' the two anchors backwards. Effectively, she's lying to only one anchor at a time. As was mentioned some where near the start of all this, the boat was swinging from side to side when anchored. They do that in wind and waves. That's why the Bahamian can't be relied on, although it does restrict boat movement in a calm crowded anchorage. Two anchors on one chain work together, and the second acts as an 'angel' to hold the chain down for the first so it stays dug in. Trouble hauling ? Not really, the first anchor up is the lighter one ; sure, there's a small delay while you unshackle and stow it, well worth it. Then the bower comes up as 'normal'. If you can't lift your anchor with either your windlass or your own strength, shouldn't you perhaps ask your crew to do it ?
 
Deleted User said:
I've spent quite a few nights anchored out in the Med this year due to ludicrous marina prices (£120 a night in August in Ibiza). Although, in theory, 2 anchors gives you better holding power, I'm not sure it's a good idea.
Problem is that you choose an anchorage with an offshore wind, then a seabreeze blows up in the afternoon so you turn 180deg, then in the evening a landbreeze blows up so you turn again and then, usually, by dawn, the wind returns to its original direction so you turn again. You cant control the direction of the turn so the two anchors may overlap once, twice or even three times so, if you have to leave the anchorage in a hurry, there's a real risk both anchors are tangled. The other problem is that many Med anchorages are very crowded, even overnight, so, if you lay out 2 anchors, there is also the risk that somebody else lays their anchor over the top of one of them
Agree with Brendan. I'd rather have one good heavy anchor with a good scope of chain

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£120 sounds like a bargain to me in Ibiza.
 
I agree that the windlass should not take the strain.
Also consider a phone app for anchor watch if you find your phone gets a good location in your cabin. Some of these apps allow a swing area to be set. And power use is lower than a plotter.
 
skipperob said:
Some advice meant in a friendly manner. I'm a yachtmaster and spent two years as a W Indies charter skipper. I've had some nasty times at anchor, the worst once in Salvador, Brasil. There's a way to be sure, when bad weather looks likely. First your bower anchor must be heavy enough, meaning ten pounds heavier than recommended for the boat. CQR or Bruce seem the best all-rounders, I prefer the CQR, its sharp point grips almost anywhere. Your kedge can be 10-15 pounds lighter. Then a dinghy hook, about ten pounds, maybe a grapnel or a Danforth or something different. You come to stop, lower (do not 'drop') your bower until it's on the bottom. Let out twice the depth of chain as you start to motor gently back until it snags (slight jerk), then shackle your kedge on to the chain,lower it while letting out four times water depth and motor back hard to dig them both well in. Use a rolling hitch or a prussik to tie a heavy length of nylon (for the springyness) rope to the chain, then cleat that to a bow mooring cleat, and let out more chain until it hangs in a loop between rope and cleat without banging against your bow. That has never shifted in my long experience. That night in Brasil when trouble began, I hauled in as far as seemed sensible, shackled my dinghy anchor to the chain, lowered that, let out plenty more and re-tied the snubber. We were stuck there embayed off a lee shore for two days, in a howling gale and big breaking waves. I lost count of the number of times the 2 ton snubber snapped and I replaced it. The main point is that through all that the anchors didn't budge. When it all calmed down and we hauled and left, the little Danforth's stock was bent into a right angle, but the two CQR's showed no signs of strain. That's how I know that my method works. I offer it to you in a spirit of friendly seamanship. And NEVER expect your windlass gypsy to act as a mooring cleat ; use a properly fitted cleat or bitts.
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Welcome to the forum skipperob.

You've probably put the cat among the pigeons with your advice on anchors - a subject that, shall we say, tends to attract a diverse range of views!

? :)
 
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