Lugger won't tack

[slippett]

I'm feeling frustrated and confused!

I have a Mevagissey Tosher. She's 18ft with a dipping lugsail up front and a standing lugsail on the mizzen. This is my second season with her, although I only got her towards the end of last season so we didn't have much time together before she came out for the winter. I've never sailed, let alone owned a lug sail before buying this boat. I have sailed many gaffers before but the lugger is a new sail plan for me so I'm learning as I go.

I can get her sailing nicely on all points of sail, gybing is fine and I can balance her nicely with the mizzen. My problem is tacking, she just doesn't like going through the wind. She will point about 30 degrees off the wind at best, I'll gather speed, enter the tack and then she'll stall and I'll be in irons

This happens in all but light winds and the flattest of seas where the is nothing to resist her, then she will just about making it round.

I have considered adding a jim so she has a bit more power. I could also back it when taking.

I wandered if when I bought her she wasn't set up right and as I'd never sailed a lugger before I didn't notice?

Any ideas or suggestions would be very gratefully received as I'm getting very frustrated.

regards

Simon

 

[Dab]

You have posted this question in the Motor Boat sub-forum. You might want to re-post it in the Yachting Monthly's Scuttlebut sub-forum, where it will be seen by the sailors rather than the powerboaters.

 

[Geoffs]

Can someone translate into English. 'a dipping lugsail up front and a standing lugsail on the mizzen' wots all that mean? And adding a Jim, who's Jim?

 

[Divemaster1]

Can someone translate into English. 'a dipping lugsail up front and a standing lugsail on the mizzen' wots all that mean? And adding a Jim, who's Jim?

Can't help with translation, but from my perspective the solution is ; fit a bigger engine !!

Apologies, but I could not resist ... but OP (Welcome to the forum by the way !! ) posted in wrong forum.... I am sure that more helpful and constructive answers will be found on the sailing boat forum...

Good luck..

 

[benjenbav]

I'm feeling frustrated and confused!

I have a Mevagissey Tosher. She's 18ft with a dipping lugsail up front and a standing lugsail on the mizzen. This is my second season with her, although I only got her towards the end of last season so we didn't have much time together before she came out for the winter. I've never sailed, let alone owned a lug sail before buying this boat. I have sailed many gaffers before but the lugger is a new sail plan for me so I'm learning as I go.

I can get her sailing nicely on all points of sail, gybing is fine and I can balance her nicely with the mizzen. My problem is tacking, she just doesn't like going through the wind. She will point about 30 degrees off the wind at best, I'll gather speed, enter the tack and then she'll stall and I'll be in irons

This happens in all but light winds and the flattest of seas where the is nothing to resist her, then she will just about making it round.

I have considered adding a jim so she has a bit more power. I could also back it when taking.

I wandered if when I bought her she wasn't set up right and as I'd never sailed a lugger before I didn't notice?

Any ideas or suggestions would be very gratefully received as I'm getting very frustrated.

regards

Simon

Often, I believe, square-rigged ships had to wear round rather than tack. Maybe yours, too?

 

[jerrytug]

I'm feeling frustrated and confused!

I have a Mevagissey Tosher. She's 18ft with a dipping lugsail up front and a standing lugsail on the mizzen. This is my second season with her, although I only got her towards the end of last season so we didn't have much time together before she came out for the winter. I've never sailed, let alone owned a lug sail before buying this boat. I have sailed many gaffers before but the lugger is a new sail plan for me so I'm learning as I go.

I can get her sailing nicely on all points of sail, gybing is fine and I can balance her nicely with the mizzen. My problem is tacking, she just doesn't like going through the wind. She will point about 30 degrees off the wind at best, I'll gather speed, enter the tack and then she'll stall and I'll be in irons

This happens in all but light winds and the flattest of seas where the is nothing to resist her, then she will just about making it round.

I have considered adding a jim so she has a bit more power. I could also back it when taking.

I wandered if when I bought her she wasn't set up right and as I'd never sailed a lugger before I didn't notice?

Any ideas or suggestions would be very gratefully received as I'm getting very frustrated.

regards

Simon

Try getting her going as fast as possible before tacking, even if it means bearing away quite a lot, for half a minute even, not much use if you are short tacking up a river I grant you. Where are you, there are loads of luggers in Looe.
If you have the energy to re post your query in the Classic Boat section (1 down from the top) you will get the advice you seek, most people on this section would think that tacking is something to do with laying carpet in their tupperware gas-guzzlers
I'm sure she will come round anyway if you experiment, cheers Jerry

 

[ontheplane]

You need to fit 2 squirrelmguffings - one on the Port side and one on the Starboard, she'll come round lovely then......

Or a 200 hp outboard, that should kick the stern round nicely.... once you get up to 20 knots....

 

[slippett]

Yes sorry, wrong sub-forum, I'll repost it on the right one.

 

[dualin]

Let the mizzen off a bit befor you tack and remember dip the yard and move the yard halyard to wether take up mizzen slack you tube tacking a dipping Lugger there is a bit on there about swinging the yard forward of the bow but it's done on a windless day on land and it's all row locks as have tried it!!!

 

[Searush]

Dualin is right, your problem is almost certainly the mizzen. Being so far behind the COfE it has a lot of leverage. The comment about speed is also important as you need water flow over the rudder for it to work.

Get up to a reasonable speed, at least 2/3 kts, release the mizzen sheet and steer her round. Readjust mizzen on new tack. I'm assuming you don't actually need to dip or change the yards to the other side of the masts, or you may need a couple of extra crew!

 

[Flynnbarr]

Dualin is right, your problem is almost certainly the mizzen. Being so far behind the COfE it has a lot of leverage. The comment about speed is also important as you need water flow over the rudder for it to work.

Get up to a reasonable speed, at least 2/3 kts, release the mizzen sheet and steer her round. Readjust mizzen on new tack. I'm assuming you don't actually need to dip or change the yards to the other side of the masts, or you may need a couple of extra crew!

Damned lunatic......get up to 2/3 knots

 

[slippett]

I have tried working the mizzen, I have even removed the mizzen altogether but to no avail. I think it's something to do with the boat itself rather than the way she is being sailed. Even with the mizzen eased she won't making any way at all if the wind is forward of the beam. would the fact the mast is straight rather than raked aft make that much of a difference? It would mean the CofE is more towards to bow.

 

[henryf]

Get up to a reasonable speed, at least 2/3 kts, release the mizzen sheet and steer her round.

Keep an eye on your wash though. There will be people on motor boats with scalding hot cups of tea !

Henry

 

[jac]

I have tried working the mizzen, I have even removed the mizzen altogether but to no avail. I think it's something to do with the boat itself rather than the way she is being sailed. Even with the mizzen eased she won't making any way at all if the wind is forward of the beam. would the fact the mast is straight rather than raked aft make that much of a difference? It would mean the CofE is more towards to bow.

Not sailed a lugger so this is theoretical but yes it should - mast rake is one of the biggest drivers of COE. If your COE is that far forward of CLR she will turn downwind like a dream but will be pig to luff. Try adjusting mast rake and see if that helps.

And sorry to MOBOers for polluting your forum with filthy talk of rag and sticks chicanery

 

[Poecheng]

Keep an eye on your wash though. There will be people on motor boats with scalding hot cups of tea !

Henry

Excellent :encouragement:

 

[slippett]

Thanks Jac, I think you're right, although it's going to be a bugger of a job to do before the end of the season. A guy on another forum suggest she might be a bit light in the bows so I think I might add a bit of extra ballast up there on the weekend and see how she does.

 

[Billows]

Fit a bow thruster

 

[Nick_H]

dip the yard and move the yard halyard to wether take up mizzen slack you tube tacking a dipping Lugger

My thoughts exactly ...

 

[gordmac]

Does Google translate do raggie?

 

[Searush]

Does Google translate do raggie?

only one word at a time though.