Charlie Boy
Well-Known Member
Terribly sad. We visited a few years ago, very interesting place
Boatbuilding training college is facing liquidation
Boatbuilding training college is facing liquidation
Lowestoft boat building college to close
- Thread starter Charlie Boy
- Start date
Puffin10032
Well-Known Member
Very sad. I hope the workers can find employment elsewhere.
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
A friend's son learnt his trade there. He's gutted (his words, not mine) by this news. And he worked for Spirit, and now for a yard in Woodbridge.
Snowgoose-1
Well-Known Member
Just not enough students possibly.
Oyster yachts not too far away so hopefully some can find work.
Oyster yachts not too far away so hopefully some can find work.
Seashoreman
Well-Known Member
It was run as a Limited Company and has gone into liquidation making 11 staff redundant.
All assets to be sold off.
All assets to be sold off.
jon711
Well-Known Member
Very sad news, I trained there 35 years ago, before it was called a college, just a centre..
Seashoreman
Well-Known Member
This is the statement from International Boatbuilding Training Centre, Lowestoft:
It is with immense sorrow that we announce the closure of the International Boatbuilding Training College Lowestoft (IBTC).
Following 50 years of training people in the craft of traditional boatbuilding and joinery we will close the doors for a final time on Friday 20th December 2024.
This difficult decision comes after a series of negative economic events alongside a continued shift in perception of what constitutes quality training in the UK. These events include Brexit, COVID and the Ukraine war. All have had an impact on material costs and general overheads; this, linked with falling student numbers leave the college economically unviable.
IBTC has long been recognised as the UK’s premier boatbuilding college offering the most comprehensive syllabus in traditional boatbuilding available. This has been achieved through operating a ‘true to life’ boatyard with a range of 20 plus boat projects for students to train on. These projects range from building new 9ft dinghies through to building a new Folk Boat and restoration of yachts up to 40ft. A unique training environment where the syllabus is expertly delivered by time served boatbuilders and joiners with an amassed experience of over 150 years.
These factors are so important in delivering quality training because learning traditional boatbuilding and joinery is about applying a good deal of skill to a wide range of technical processes, processes that rely on a person understanding a whole range of varied subjects – how trees grows and how this affects grain and therefore the use of the wood, how to cut the perfect dovetail or craft the seamless plank scarf right through to applying the last coat of varnish.
This broad approach of understanding as much of a subject as possible, even if it is not part of an official syllabus, results in the development of the highest quality crafts people possible. We call this approach to training ‘teaching in the round’ a process that cannot be shortcut.
Unfortunately, we live in an economy that demands shortcuts, that demands cost savings at the expense of quality.
We, as a nation, are accepting mediocrity and more worryingly we are mistaking this mediocrity for quality. The national loss of skills and high-quality skills training in the artisan sector are deeply concerning.
We would like to take this opportunity to thank our amazing students and publicly pay tribute to a group of brilliant instructors and staff whose experience, knowledge, expertise and patience have changed so many lives for the better.
Thank you,
Lyn & Mike
It is with immense sorrow that we announce the closure of the International Boatbuilding Training College Lowestoft (IBTC).
Following 50 years of training people in the craft of traditional boatbuilding and joinery we will close the doors for a final time on Friday 20th December 2024.
This difficult decision comes after a series of negative economic events alongside a continued shift in perception of what constitutes quality training in the UK. These events include Brexit, COVID and the Ukraine war. All have had an impact on material costs and general overheads; this, linked with falling student numbers leave the college economically unviable.
IBTC has long been recognised as the UK’s premier boatbuilding college offering the most comprehensive syllabus in traditional boatbuilding available. This has been achieved through operating a ‘true to life’ boatyard with a range of 20 plus boat projects for students to train on. These projects range from building new 9ft dinghies through to building a new Folk Boat and restoration of yachts up to 40ft. A unique training environment where the syllabus is expertly delivered by time served boatbuilders and joiners with an amassed experience of over 150 years.
These factors are so important in delivering quality training because learning traditional boatbuilding and joinery is about applying a good deal of skill to a wide range of technical processes, processes that rely on a person understanding a whole range of varied subjects – how trees grows and how this affects grain and therefore the use of the wood, how to cut the perfect dovetail or craft the seamless plank scarf right through to applying the last coat of varnish.
This broad approach of understanding as much of a subject as possible, even if it is not part of an official syllabus, results in the development of the highest quality crafts people possible. We call this approach to training ‘teaching in the round’ a process that cannot be shortcut.
Unfortunately, we live in an economy that demands shortcuts, that demands cost savings at the expense of quality.
We, as a nation, are accepting mediocrity and more worryingly we are mistaking this mediocrity for quality. The national loss of skills and high-quality skills training in the artisan sector are deeply concerning.
We would like to take this opportunity to thank our amazing students and publicly pay tribute to a group of brilliant instructors and staff whose experience, knowledge, expertise and patience have changed so many lives for the better.
Thank you,
Lyn & Mike
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Malish
Well-Known Member
sadly there's a lot of it about in post 18 education at the moment, and fond memories do not pay the bills
DoubleEnder
Well-Known Member
I’ve met a few of their alumni over the years and some of them are extremely skilled and impressive tradespeople. By no means all of them are ‘traditional’ shipwrights.
This seems so sad. Not just for the people directly involved but for our society. Why can’t we value and pay people who do craft work well? In place like Japan they’re given high status. But it’s hard for these guys to earn decent living in the UK. It does seem to be a bit different in the United States, though I’m not expert on that.
It seems incredible, but I guess there’s a real risk that traditional boat building and shipwrighting skills could just die out completely. Will the AI be able to do this for us?
This seems so sad. Not just for the people directly involved but for our society. Why can’t we value and pay people who do craft work well? In place like Japan they’re given high status. But it’s hard for these guys to earn decent living in the UK. It does seem to be a bit different in the United States, though I’m not expert on that.
It seems incredible, but I guess there’s a real risk that traditional boat building and shipwrighting skills could just die out completely. Will the AI be able to do this for us?
Keith 66
Well-Known Member
I went to the then Falmouth Tech college (Now marine school) In the late 70's & did the C&G boatbuilding & the yacht design course, Good times. But out of all the lads from my year just 5 of us stayed in the marine industry.
I went working in various factories & yards & then started up on my own in 84, Back then there was a demand for wooden boat work in our area (Southend, Benfleet, Leigh, Canvey) & enough work about to support quite a few one man bands like me & other companies. If you asked me today who to fix a wooden boat properly locally I honestly couldnt tell you. They have either died or retired. In any case there isnt the work for them & if there is people expect to pay the same pay rates they did 30 years ago conveniently forgetting that those wages have devalued by two thirds.
Most boatbuilders went to work in construction or fitting kitchens, warmer & good money.
We had Falmouth, The Boatbuilding academy at Lyme regis, Southhampton & the IBTC, then along came The Pioneer trust which did the same thing but funded as a charity, I suspect many of those who might have gone to the IBTC had prospective trainees sucked away by them.
In the end all these wooden boatbuilders are being trained for a trade that now exists as a cottage industry only.
I went working in various factories & yards & then started up on my own in 84, Back then there was a demand for wooden boat work in our area (Southend, Benfleet, Leigh, Canvey) & enough work about to support quite a few one man bands like me & other companies. If you asked me today who to fix a wooden boat properly locally I honestly couldnt tell you. They have either died or retired. In any case there isnt the work for them & if there is people expect to pay the same pay rates they did 30 years ago conveniently forgetting that those wages have devalued by two thirds.
Most boatbuilders went to work in construction or fitting kitchens, warmer & good money.
We had Falmouth, The Boatbuilding academy at Lyme regis, Southhampton & the IBTC, then along came The Pioneer trust which did the same thing but funded as a charity, I suspect many of those who might have gone to the IBTC had prospective trainees sucked away by them.
In the end all these wooden boatbuilders are being trained for a trade that now exists as a cottage industry only.
DoubleEnder
Well-Known Member
It is a cottage industry I guess. But it is also something very special, and the ‘products’ are kind of precious. And there are yards, and businesses doing the work. There’s Spirit yachts in Ipswich, several yards on the South coast in Poole, Bursledon, Chichester. And also in Devon, and Cornwall as well as several in Scotland. I’m sure I’ve missed some. And then there are similar yards in France as well as the big specialists in Italy. Not to mention the West and East coast USA.
Ok, this adds up to very small number of people employed, and probably a pretty small total revenue. Clearly it’s never going to be a big business again, it’s not about growth and it probably shouldn’t be.
But the boats and the work can be so beautiful. I think the wooden boat building industry should really be looked at as a luxury sector, not as an alternative to modern design & manufacture. They are worlds apart.
If hand made Hermes handbags can be sold for £10,000 then the price of a hand built yacht is nothing special. This is the quintessentially platonic ideal of artisanal work. And there are people who get it, enough to keep a small and truly exclusive industry alive. But it needs to be able to train the tradespeople
Ok, this adds up to very small number of people employed, and probably a pretty small total revenue. Clearly it’s never going to be a big business again, it’s not about growth and it probably shouldn’t be.
But the boats and the work can be so beautiful. I think the wooden boat building industry should really be looked at as a luxury sector, not as an alternative to modern design & manufacture. They are worlds apart.
If hand made Hermes handbags can be sold for £10,000 then the price of a hand built yacht is nothing special. This is the quintessentially platonic ideal of artisanal work. And there are people who get it, enough to keep a small and truly exclusive industry alive. But it needs to be able to train the tradespeople
Malish
Well-Known Member
It sounds like a case of apprenticeships within the industry...
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
But apprenticeships need the support of colleges to provide the training that can't be given on the job. For example, hairdressers attend college at least one day a week during their apprenticeship.
Egret
Well-Known Member
Maybe could tie in with a general carpentry/joinery course for the college day - especially if someone at the college is a boater - or a block course at one of the Southampton colleges or similar. Employers or customers are going to look at what a person can do, rather than just certificates. There will be some hopefully still that started doing wooden boat repairs from about the age of about 8 but maybe not many building racing dinghies from 12 or 14. Its going to be people who have an interest in the craft.
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ridgy
Well-Known Member
I always thought that most people doing these courses were retirees keeping themselves busy and who may have a desire to build something for themselves. It might be on my list when the time comes.
Egret
Well-Known Member
Maybe that is why the Nottage courses seem to take so long as I used the think that Fred Mitchell with some help could build at least one 12ft Sea Ranger a week and had about 3 running at any time - but I think there is still place for young people to learn - plenty of wooden boats still and interest in classic wooden boats- I recall that the issue wasn't skills or demand but difficulty in getting the right type of timber - even then in the 1960s. I hear that a continental builder is building fast boats in plywood again - and not forgetting Spirit.
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PeterWright
Well-Known Member
If we want to understand why shipwrights earn less than car mechanics, we better look at ourselves. Any yard either building or repairing a boat needs to pay the overheads and make a profit. If you quote a price or a repair which would support car mechanic rates for the craftsmen, you won't get the job. Carry on doing that and your business folds. To support higher pay rates for our craftsmen, we need to be wiling to pay more for our boats to be cared for. It's as easy as that.
The strange thing is that most sailing boat owners of today are wiling to pay almost car mechanic rates to have their auxiliary engine overhauled annually but ignore maintaining the increasingly complicated rig for year after year, then moan about the cost when they do need some help from a yard, rigger or sailmaker. Why is that?
Peter.
The strange thing is that most sailing boat owners of today are wiling to pay almost car mechanic rates to have their auxiliary engine overhauled annually but ignore maintaining the increasingly complicated rig for year after year, then moan about the cost when they do need some help from a yard, rigger or sailmaker. Why is that?
Peter.
Malish
Well-Known Member
Niche courses need the support of that industry, they only become 'commercially' viable to the college when 20-30 people attend. The issue is usually that the industry will only skim off and employ the top 10-20% of the students (if they are lucky) leaving the remainder to find work elsewhere, and that is not a great recruitment statistic for the college, which is probably strapped for cash and consequently the course closes. The college then sticks to bland bulk courses such as hairdressing.... at same time the niche industry then complains about a lack of qualified applicants...
The current funding model does not serve anybody well, but very few want to put their hand in their pocket to improve it.
oldbloke
Well-Known Member
There was an interesting book a couple of years back by a stonemason who did a lot of work restoring cathedrals etc. Towards the end he was complaining about the lack of young blood. He said you could make a good living earning ( I forget the number , but £25 ish) .I thought at the time, if he charged £50 per hour then he'd have more luck getting help
PeterWright
Well-Known Member
In the boat building world it tends to happen the other way. The yards find the apprentices then send them to the college as part of their apprenticeship. Rather than going to recruit graduates from the few colleges.
Taking on apprentices is a risky business as they often don't stay the course and clear off to do other things so the employers investment, sometimes years, is written off. Even the reality of having to leave the comfort of home for training at a college has been known to turn apprentices off, despite their assurances at the start that they would be happy with this. It's a big yard that can contemplate more than two apprentices at the same time and, when you want one, it can take a long time to find the right individual. Nonetheless less, if no yards take any on, the industry will surely die.
On the other hand, it's great when you get one who's a really good fit, learns fast,and becomes a mainstay of the business.
Peter.
