Lowering the Mainsail. (single handed)

[Frank Holden]

Yes, gotta have lazy jacks
I also have problems with battens catching if raising in chop.

Does anyone have photos of a solution for this eg a cockpit led line that pulls the lazy jacks forward out of the way, immediately before a hoist ?

My solution is that a bloke aka 'me' goes to the mast to hoist the main. Just before hoisting the main I take the port side lazyjacks back to the mast -- not quite back to the mast but about 18 inches from the mast where I hook them around a cleat on the boom. That little bit of 'working' lazyjack makes sure the bulk of the main stays under control and doesn't fall off the boom after removing the ties and before hoisting. When I start to hoist I put the wind very fine on the stbd bow so that the battens stay clear of the stbd lazyjacks.

It works.

 

[Yealm]

My solution is that a bloke aka 'me' goes to the mast to hoist the main. Just before hoisting the main I take the port side lazyjacks back to the mast -- not quite back to the mast but about 18 inches from the mast where I hook them around a cleat on the boom. That little bit of 'working' lazyjack makes sure the bulk of the main stays under control and doesn't fall off the boom after removing the ties and before hoisting. When I start to hoist I put the wind very fine on the stbd bow so that the battens stay clear of the stbd lazyjacks.

It works.

Sounds good.
But I hoist from the cockpit. For me, too dangerous and difficult at the mast in exposed, choppy waters..

 

[Daydream believer]

But I hoist from the cockpit. For me, too dangerous and difficult at the mast in exposed, choppy waters..

For me I consider that there are 3 really dangerous points of sailing that I cannot avoid (I do not anchor)
Putting lines & fenders away when leaving a port
Dropping & recovering the mainsail at the end of the trip before entering a port
Getting lines & fenders ready to go into port
The more one can stay in the cockpit the better & the less one has to do on deck the better. That includes adjusting lazy jacks. I already have a combination of 26 different controls that can go to my cockpit at different times, so lazy jack line control, or sail downhaul line etc would be a PITA

 

[Dutch01527]

I would endorse a combination of stack pack, lazy jacks and low friction cars on the mast. I have this set up and it works very well, I just need a bit of care to raise the main between the lazy jacks so that the battens do not foul. Never found it necessary to pull the lazy jacks back to the mast. A boom strut helps to keep the boom up and tension off the main sail.

Another alternative would be to rig a continuous loop down haul from the head of the sail, up to a block at the mast head, down to the deck at the mast foot, back to the cockpit, round a cockpit block and back to the sail head via the mast foot. No loose line that way but seems a bit overkill.

 

[johnalison]

It helps if the sail is allowed to flog a little when hoisting & the boom can swing freely so the sail is always head to wind. I do have a sail bag for lowering but if I drop too quickly the battens can tip & catch the leech & stop the sail dropping. I have to be careful to control the drop a little. There is always 6 ft of sail to pull down manually at the end.

Which goes to show that we can all do different things and each be right. In my case, I control the boom with the mainsheet tight for the first part of the hoisting, keeping the sail from snagging by carefully steering into the wind. Once the leech is clear of the lazyjacks I free the sheet and do the remaining hoist as quickly as I can. Usually my wife does the halyard when dropping sail and she lets it go as freely as possible in the hope that its kinetic energy will cause it to drop fully. If the last few feet don't drop I usually leave it until we are at least in calm water when I will pull it down by hand to limit windage when berthing.

 

[dansaskip]

The problem with lazyjacks fouling the batten ends when hoisting can be solved. The other trick on a big boat is to pull the jacks apart near the top if they are fitted to the mast, not the spreaders. .

On the advice of others I fitted my lazy jacks to the spreaders- it really works.

 

[KenF]

Thanks NormanF - that is the most original of the replies so far, but I still don't like the idea of lazyjacks, but cleaning & lubricating the luff slot and slides is something I will definitely do next spring. As for the loose sail after lowering I will see how using the reef lines (2) to lower and contain it works.

 

[Daydream believer]

Which goes to show that we can all do different things and each be right. In my case, I control the boom with the mainsheet tight for the first part of the hoisting, keeping the sail from snagging by carefully steering into the wind. Once the leech is clear of the lazyjacks I free the sheet and do the remaining hoist as quickly as I can. Usually my wife does the halyard when dropping sail and she lets it go as freely as possible in the hope that its kinetic energy will cause it to drop fully. If the last few feet don't drop I usually leave it until we are at least in calm water when I will pull it down by hand to limit windage when berthing.

I can see that, You have a crew. but I sail single handed, so do not have the pleasure of a helmsman to keep the boat always heading straight into the wind. I have to rely on the autopilot & that does whatever it wants. Hence, I have to let the boom & sail find "head to wind"
But to each his own & the OP can read each post & make his own decision as to which way he will go. That is the point of the forum. A font of ideas.

 

[johnalison]

I can see that, You have a crew. but I sail single handed, so do not have the pleasure of a helmsman to keep the boat always heading straight into the wind. I have to rely on the autopilot & that does whatever it wants. Hence, I have to let the boom & sail find "head to wind"
But to each his own & the OP can read each post & make his own decision as to which way he will go. That is the point of the forum. A font of ideas.

With my tiller, I steer the boat and hoist the main myself, since the layout of the cockpit makes this relatively easy, and it is what I would do and have done single-handed, though rarely.

I had thought of moving the lazyjack blocks to further out, as mentioned in #26, but never got around to it, and it was pointed out in an earlier discussion that this will cause the tension to change as the boom moves across, even potentially causing damage.

 

[srm]

I sail single-handed with a rather large main and have resorted to dumping the main, usually requiring me to go to the mast to pull the final section of the mainsail down and securing with a sail tie, and stowing it properly once berthed.

This means that I have a large amount of sail drooping over one side of the boom when motoring into my berth.

- I have tried lazyjacks - and removed them due to issues with fouling on battens during hoisting.
- I have tried a downhaul - unsuccessful due to the amount of 'string' in the cockpit.

Any suggestions?

Sailing a 42 ft sloop with a large main singlehanded I fitted lazyjacks and lowering the sail became a doddle with everything under control. The same method has worked on a variety of smaller boats since. You just have to organise the boat and yourself so that things work smoothly. Also, its a lot easier to hoist and lower the main sail at the mast, as you can see what is going on and avoid snags.

Hoisting the main was no problem. Hoist headsail (this was in the 80's) and sail close hauled under wind vane.
Slack off the lee side lazy jacks and hook them on a mast cleat to keep out of the way. Mainsail spills onto the coachroof.
Hoist mainsail.
Re-set lazyjacks.
Wander back to the cockpit, adjust main sheet. Set windvane steering and sails for required course.
Relax, perhaps go below and put the kettle on.

For lowering come close hauled, ease mainsheet so sail flaps, ease out the halyard so main flakes into the lazyjacks.

As stated by a post near the start of this thread you need a clean and lubricated mast track. You also need lazy jacks that can be slacked off and secured at the mast to clear the sail.

If you want to sail singlehanded you need the temperament to look at your boat in a positive frame of mind and find ways to do what you want with the minimum of effort. You also need the confidence to move around the boat and work on deck which requires 100% reliable self steering/autopilot.

 

[Never Grumble]

again no idea how big your boat is, if you want free running hoisting and dropping try upgrading to intermediate roller cars, which is something I did. For dropping a previous owner had fitted a downhaul which was necessary with the plastic sliders, this is subsequently I removed as the intermediate roller cars means it drops so quickly and hoists much easier too, almost to the top without using a winch.

 

[Frogmogman]

Thanks NormanF - that is the most original of the replies so far, but I still don't like the idea of lazyjacks, but cleaning & lubricating the luff slot and slides is something I will definitely do next spring. As for the loose sail after lowering I will see how using the reef lines (2) to lower and contain it works.

When lubricating the slot and slides, avoid silicone products or oil based ones that will attract dirt. I find McLube Sailkote to be an excellent product? But many of the dry PTFE sprays will probably do the job just as well.

As to lazy jacks, I far prefer adjustable ones that can be lowered, or the lazy bag rolled away and secured either side of the boom when required, rather than flapping around the whole time. The ones on my boat are fixed, but they are on my to-do list for when I replace the lazy bag (which probably has one season left in it..)

 

[Daydream believer]

Personally I cannot see the point of lubricants where there are plastic sliders in an aluminium track. My sliders have lots of slack & can be rattled about in the track quite easily. It is not like a sail luff in a groove on a dinghy mast. If they are a tight fit then perhaps that is the fault. One might look at the way they are fitted to the sail. If they are fastened such that they are forced at an angle as the sail twists in the drop, or hoist, to one side, or the other, then that is obviously going to make them jam.
Friction is often due to reasons such as, poor alignment of the hoisting system; poor quality pullies & the sheaves at the mast head not rolling correctly under load. Then of course mouldy stiff halyards & incorrectly sized ones. The sail itself needs to be flaked so it comes off the boom neatly when hoisted without jamming the sliders through being twisted. On the drop it needs to be free of any wind. Reef lines need to be free & not partially loaded on the sail so they have to be pulled through cringles as the sail goes up.

 

[Poignard]

Hada boat with a battenless main,nicely cut it didn’t flutter or shake…….by Ratsey

I would like to know more about this sail.

Any pictures or other info?

 

[srm]

Personally I cannot see the point of lubricants where there are plastic sliders in an aluminium track.

Depends how old the mast is and how much salt and crud has accumulated in the groove. WD40 seems to clean it out quite nicely, but is not really a lubricant. All your other points are, of course, valid - especially how the slides are attached to the sail.

 

[Wansworth]

I would like to know more about this sail.

Any pictures or other info?

I am afraid that was back in 1977

 

[Poignard]

I am afraid that was back in 1977

Were you able to lower it easily with the wind aft?

 

[dunedin]

Thanks NormanF - that is the most original of the replies so far, but I still don't like the idea of lazyjacks, but cleaning & lubricating the luff slot and slides is something I will definitely do next spring. As for the loose sail after lowering I will see how using the reef lines (2) to lower and contain it works.

That’s fine, and it is your choice if you don’t want to fit lazyjacks - but you are as a consequence suffering from the issues that are precisely what lazyjacks and a stackpack sailcover are designed to eliminate.
It’s a bit like saying I don’t like wearing coats - but how do I keep dry in the rain?

 

[jamie N]

I had thought of moving the lazyjack blocks to further out, as mentioned in #26, but never got around to it, and it was pointed out in an earlier discussion that this will cause the tension to change as the boom moves across, even potentially causing damage.

I've set my lazyjacks so that the main/upper line from the port side runs up through a small block fixed on the mast, down to another small block (which has the 'downline' to the cockpit for tensioning the lazyjacks), up to a stbd side block on the side of the mast, and down to the stbd side of the sail.
Having the lines run through a block rather than a fixed 'Y', allows the tension to vary from side to side as appropriate.

 

[srm]

I had thought of moving the lazyjack blocks to further out, as mentioned in #26, but never got around to it, and it was pointed out in an earlier discussion that this will cause the tension to change as the boom moves across, even potentially causing damage.

Lazyjacks can be used as topping lifts. Like the topping lift I never sail with them tensioned, but with just enough slack so as not to interfere with the set of the sail. They can be adjusted when reefed and the sail lifts the boom to keep them tidy. My lazyjack blocks are about a third of the way out on the spreaders, obviously if doing so the spreaders need to be well supported to avoid droop - not a difficult thing to arrange.